Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by andViolins
I know that you backed off on that, but why not presume innocence until proven guilty?

Reading between the lines, no one will ever face criminal charges because the State investigators offered the Blackwater folks immunity to get them to talk.

[Gattigap]

Apparently, there's at least one US Court that has addressed the status of waterboarding. The Mississippi Supreme Court, in 1926.

• In a case called Fisher v. State, 110 So. 361, 362 (Miss. 1926), Mississippi's highest court ordered the retrial of a convicted murderer because his confession was secured by a local sheriff's use of the water cure.
  
  Here's the court:
  
  

  The state offered . . . testimony of confessions made by the appellant, Fisher. . . [who], after the state had rested, introduced the sheriff, who testified that, he was sent for one night to come and receive a confession of the appellant in the jail; that he went there for that purpose; that when he reached the jail he found a number of parties in the jail; that they had the appellant down upon the floor, tied, and were administering the water cure, a specie of torture well known to the bench and bar of the country.

  Fisher relied on a case called White v. State, 182, 91 So. 903, 904 (Miss. 1922), in which the court took -- as I understand history in those parts -- the unusual step of reversing the murder conviction of a young African-American male, charged with killing a white man (it appears), because his confession was secured by *the cure*. The court said:
  
  

  . . . [T]he hands of appellant were tied behind him, he was laid upon the floor upon his back, and, while some of the men stood upon his feet, Gilbert, a very heavy man, stood with one foot entirely upon appellant's breast, and the other foot entirely upon his neck. While in that position what is described as the "water cure" was administered to him in an effort to extort a confession as to where the money was hidden which was supposed to have been taken from the dead man. The "water cure" appears to have consisted of pouring water from a dipper into the nose of appellant, so as to strangle him, thus causing pain and horror, for the purpose of forcing a confession. Under these barbarous circumstances the appellant readily confessed . . .

It's hard to believe that we're further into paranoid anger than in 1920s Mississippi, but here we are.

Gattigap

[Southern Patriot]

Originally posted by Gattigap
It's hard to believe that we're further into paranoid anger than in 1920s Mississippi, but here we are.

Gattigap

Why are you disparaging the good name of 1920s Mississippi? That there was a civilized nation, a world where there were still Gentlemen, unlike whatever peasant foreign backwater your ancestors lived in at the time. We should be proud to be as civilized as 1920s Mississippi - or even 1850s Mississippi. And I believe our friends in the Republican party understand this.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Southern Patriot
Why are you disparaging the good name of 1920s Mississippi? That there was a civilized nation, a world where there were still Gentlemen, unlike whatever peasant foreign backwater your ancestors lived in at the time. We should be proud to be as civilized as 1920s Mississippi - or even 1850s Mississippi. And I believe our friends in the Republican party understand this.

translation: Greedy sees more racists Dems doing horrible acts.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
It's hard to believe that we're further into paranoid anger than in 1920s Mississippi, but here we are.

Gattigap

The CIA wants to torture to get "confessions"? That is fucked up. Can you cite to that?


Ty, the case says "administering the water cure, a specie of torture well known to the bench and bar of the country". I thought no one in America did it before Bush took over. Can't I accept your pronouncements as fact anymore?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The CIA wants to torture to get "confessions"? That is fucked up. Can you cite to that?

Naw, Hank, Bush-era defensive crouches about waterboarding are old and busted. The New GOP Hotness is Waterboarding's enthusiastic embrace. Get with the program, Hank, or you'll be left in the dust with that bunch of lame-duck, term-limited GOP stalwarts who just didn't have what it took to be Strong in the Face Of The Islamofascist Menace.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Naw, Hank, Bush-era defensive crouches about waterboarding are old and busted. The New GOP Hotness is Waterboarding's enthusiastic embrace. Get with the program, Hank, or you'll be left in the dust with that bunch of lame-duck, term-limited GOP stalwarts who just didn't have what it took to be Strong in the Face Of The Islamofascist Menace.

what about Rudy's statement is wrong?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
what about Rudy's statement is wrong?

It depends on who does it? Really?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
It depends on who does it? Really?

even Ty says that. a good toady follows his master's voice better than you're doing.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
even Ty says that. a good toady follows his master's voice better than you're doing.

Ty says that the issue of whether waterboarding is torture is at least partially dependent on the identity of the person holding the bucket? Huh. I must have missed that one.

Oh, and nice ad hominem jab at Gatti -- "a good toady." Heh. That'll show him.

So, um this is kind of awkward, but are you slave's toady or are you his? Or do you switch?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Ty says that the issue of whether waterboarding is torture is at least partially dependent on the identity of the person holding the bucket? Huh. I must have missed that one.

The bitch of LSAT training is that you learn reading comprehension is the last thing you should practice.

Oh, and nice ad hominem jab at Gatti -- "a good toady." Heh. That'll show him.

So, um this is kind of awkward, but are you slave's toady or are you his? Or do you switch?

at first everyone acts like my positions are insane, then slave always gets around to taking my position two days later. I think it's subliminal. Toadyism is active.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The bitch of LSAT training is that you learn reading comprehension is the last thing you should practice.

Cryptic insults -- yay! Come on, Hank -- spell it out for me, since I am a dummy. Here's what I saw on the board -- where did I go wrong?

• Gatti: provides cite to Rudy comment re waterboarding.
  
  Hank: what about Rudy's statement is wrong?
  
  Gatti: It depends on who does it? Really?
  
  Hank: even Ty says that (followed by insult)
  
  Me: Ty says that the issue of whether waterboarding is torture is at least partially dependent on the identity of the person holding the bucket? Huh. I must have missed that one.
  
  Hank: The bitch of LSAT training is that you learn reading comprehension is the last thing you should practice.

So, Hank, explain to my poor reading comprehending self where I went wrong? Spell it out, please, in words that are sufficiently simple, so that my trained-in-a-mere-land-grant-state-school-brain can understand. Because as I see it, you said that Ty said that waterboarding may or may not be torture, based in part upon who does it. To which I say, cite please. Because I think that Ty has said some stuff I strongly disagree with here before, but I think that I would have remembered that one.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
at first everyone acts like my positions are insane, then slave always gets around to taking my position two days later. I think it's subliminal. Toadyism is active.

Got it. Slave's the toady in your mind, but he does it on an unconscious level.

[LessinSF]

He was was on a local radio station this morning promoting his new book. He was glib and said some insightful things. For example, he summed up Republicans versus Democrats as:

Republicans want leaders, like Reagan and Ike, so that they can focus on working and making money. Democrats want meetings, endless meetings.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Cryptic insults -- yay! Come on, Hank -- spell it out for me, since I am a dummy. Here's what I saw on the board -- where did I go wrong?

Ty is always saying he isn't as concerned if soldiers near the front torture as when people far removed do it. He has said similar things many times.

To which I say, cite please.

People can't pay me for research at this point, I certainl won't do it for free.

Got it. Slave's the toady in your mind, but he does it on an unconscious level.

Why are you so concerned about what Ty has said, or how I might perceive what ty has said? oh, wait. I know why.

Originally posted by Not Bob
Cryptic insults -- yay! Come on, Hank -- spell it out for me, since I am a dummy. Here's what I saw on the board -- where did I go wrong?

You're wasting your time. Hank is the kind of ivory tower moral relativist who thinks you can't apply "patronizing western cultural mores" to social groups with radically different worldviews, like Republicans.