Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I find it amusing that you think Bush was in active service when he was working on a GOP campaign in Alabama and going to Harvard, but Kerry was not in active service when he was serving full-time in the Navy but not actually on a 55-foot aluminum boat on the Mekong River.

When he went on leave to work on the campaign, it was his 5th year in the Guard.

After Kerry's attempts at deferment failed (and he could no longer go study/hide in France), and after he volunteered to join the non-combat Swift Boats - whose mission, unbeknownst to him at the time - was altered, and then served (according to his own Senate testimony, as a war criminal) on this 55-foot boat and "hurt" himself the third time, it was his 4th month.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
You've never been to Alabama, have you?

I drove through there once, very fast. All the passengers in my car said it was the courageous thing to do, but I'm sure you can find people from other cars in our caravan who thought I was being a pussy.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Even in context, the message is still, vote for us or die. I never doubted he had a framework in which the quote was set. That doesn't mean it isn't still demagoguery. And it doesn't really change the meaning, it only offers a rationale. Your approval of the rationale is what makes the diffference for you.

I bet Kerry could kick Cheney's ass though Bush would be tougher. It's always tough fighting a retard.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Once Kerry's new staff figures out what his positions will be, please let me know.

Ok. Start here.

If you want .pdf whitepapers on his positions, you can start be reading ones on:

Cutting the Deficit
Revitalizing Manufacturing
Reforming the Tax Code (I doubt this includes the term "flat Tax", but you never know. So give it a try!)
Enforcing Trade Agreements
The minimum wage (a downer for GOPers, to be sure, but the word "women" appears prominently, so maybe good tips are included)
Health Care
Energy Independence
Education

... and so on. Really, you should check it out. Despite what NRO might suggest, there's just pages and pages of this shit to read out there.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Just not true. First you have to look at which allegation. On the Rassmasan story, for example, although they weren't on the same boat, there were several boats there at the time and they were on the other boats.

And if their story is true, they are the most craven men imaginable. According to them, they were a few yards away from an injured man in the water, struggling to keep himself afloat, completely unharassed by enemy fire, and they just let him sit there until Kerry wheeled his boat around from supposedly high-tailing it out of harm's way and came all the way back.

Their story may be less than flattering to Kerry, but it sure as hell is damning to them.

For what it's worth, I don't really care about the medal controversy. But I don't see how the accounts of 250 soldiers can be dismissed so easily

I'm going with craven animals.

, and frankly, neither does the general public.

We shall see, I suppose. I don't trust the idea that either you nor I have any idea what is going on in the head of the "general public."

The Bush NG story is irrevelevant, even if true.

I agree it's irrelevant, in that it didn't disqualify him from being president the first time. It's not irrelevant in that if you are going to condemn the supposed service, or lack there of, of Kerry, it's going to be used as a yardstick.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Silly me. I guess I imagined your post of yesterday mocking his plan to remove whatever tax advantages there are to US companies who outsource jobs overseas. I kinda figured that you thought that this was a silly position Kerry had taken, but now I see.

And I guess I imagined all of those "plans" listed on his website, setting forth his positions on social security and stuff like that.

Have you read his website? I have. It's interesting, first of all, to see entire sections appear for a day, and then get hastily pulled down, and replaced, not just with prettier sections, but with entire new positions, contradicting earlier pages. He remakes himself on his website weekly. And, his "plans"? Things like "I will work to make health care affordable for all", and "I will create jobs". Controversial shit. I understand he has an entire page speaking of his love for puppies.

Oh, wait -- that's right. They are all imaginary positions because bilmore says that John Kerry is insincere when he comes up with these plans. Why? Because they are inconsistent with his liberal voting record in the Senate.

I will concede that one should look to his Senate record to see his true position. And, I will assert that, having looked, one will still be confused.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
You've never been to Alabama, have you?

I have. I'd still rather go there.

(I'd sure as hell make sure I was up to date on SEC football, but I'd still go.)

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
When he went on leave to work on the campaign, it was his 5th year in the Guard.

After Kerry's attempts at deferment failed (and he could no longer go study/hide in France), and after he volunteered to join the non-combat Swift Boats - whose mission, unbeknownst to him at the time - was altered, and then served (according to his own Senate testimony, as a war criminal) on this 55-foot boat and "hurt" himself the third time, it was his 4th month.

Without touching on your other attempts to slime him, I will point out only that you seem not to understand that he continued to serve in the Navy after he got his third Purple Heart and stop serving on a Swift boat.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by bilmore
Oh, yeah, I forgot.

He's against gun control. Unless it's good gun control. Then he's for it, except if someone might write about it in the news. Then he's a hunter. Who shoots shotguns without plugs or glasses. (No wonder he thinks guns are unsafe.)

Oh, yeah, and he supports making teachers accountable. But, only to themselves, really. Unless he's speaking to the NEA, where he doesn't think teachers should have to justify themselves even to themselves. But we should institute merit pay. But no one should be looking to evaluate teachers already tenured.

And taxes - he's gonna make those rich bastards pay their fair share. But only the rich - no one who makes less than, say,$10,000 will see an increase in their taxes.

I hope Bush stays in office just so his environmental/energy policies pollute the river in which you kayak.

(I'm kidding of course. The fact that you're a Republican who actually enjoys the outdoors is one of your redeeming characteristics.)

I know you like your outdoorsmanship to be done in increased carbon emissions! Who doesn't?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by bilmore
I understand he has an entire page speaking of his love for puppies.

Wrong. The Swifties say he hates puppies, babies and apple pie.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I know you like your outdoorsmanship to be done in increased carbon emissions!

Carbon? No. But, depending on who's cooking, maybe methane.

[Apropos of Nothing]

Originally posted by bilmore
Have you read his website? I have. It's interesting, first of all, to see entire sections appear for a day, and then get hastily pulled down, and replaced, not just with prettier sections, but with entire new positions, contradicting earlier pages. He remakes himself on his website weekly. And, his "plans"? Things like "I will work to make health care affordable for all", and "I will create jobs". Controversial shit. I understand he has an entire page speaking of his love for puppies.

Yup, I have. Speaking of which, a portion of his health care "puppy love" plan is below. Seems a bit more detailed then you think.

And I would be fascinated to learn more about the contradictory changes in his website. Somehow I suspect that such changes have been tracked by all sorts of bloggers and GOP types, and there is surely a web page showing before and after screen shots. Because Kerry is a flipflopper.

Anyway, here's the I love puppies part:

• Creating A New Approach To Control Spiraling Health Care Costs - And Passing The Savings On To Workers
  
  Because catastrophic costs are both high and unpredictable, they raise the cost of health insurance for all people. John Kerry believes that cost of the sickest Americans should be shared - not just by people paying for private insurance but by the government. He proposes to create a "premium rebate" pool that will make health care more affordable for employers and employees by helping out with certain high cost health cases. Under this proposal, the pool would reimburse private and public employer and group health insurance plans that meet certain qualifications for a portion of catastrophic costs. "Catastrophic costs" would be defined as the annual claims for an individual that exceed a certain threshold. This catastrophic threshold would be set so that the average estimated savings would be approximately 10 percent for qualifying plans nationwide, which is estimated at 75 percent of the costs in excess of an approximate $50,000 threshold in 2013 (and about $30,000 in 2006). The resulting savings would decrease family premiums by up to $1,000 annually. In addition to lowering costs, the rebate will make premium increases more stable over time. To qualify for this "premium rebate" pool, employers and insurers will have to:
  
  Provide Health Coverage to Their Workers. Many companies work to provide quality coverage to all their workers. However, some companies have stringent rules that prevent some workers from obtaining affordable health care. To receive the premium rebate, employers would have to provide insurance coverage to their employees.
  
  Adopt Disease Management and Care Coordination Programs to Improve Quality and Lower Costs. Innovative programs targeting patients with chronic conditions have illustrated that both the human and cost consequences of chronic diseases can be alleviated through hands-on medical management. Employers and their insurers must adopt model programs to receive the premium rebate.
  
  Share Savings with Workers. By substantially reducing catastrophic costs, John Kerry's proposal will make it easier for employers to offer affordable coverage. Firms will be able to provide higher wages, maintain benefits, and make investments that help employers and workers alike. Health economists predict that these savings will automatically be passed onto workers in the form of higher wages and/or other forms of compensation. If employees do not share in the savings, the Secretary of Health and Human Services and the Secretary of Labor would develop policy options to ensure that employers do share these savings with workers.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by taxwonk
They aren't. That was my point. Both W. and Kerry have people lining up on both sides to say that they did or didn't do what they claimed they did. Neither has proven or disproven anything. It's all just a big shitbucket that needs to be dropped in favor of addressing the candidates' positions.

I meant the Swiftees v. the Kerreys

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Apropos of Nothing
Yup, I have. Speaking of which, a portion of his health care "puppy love" plan is below. Seems a bit more detailed then you think.

Umm . . . . did you forget to put on your socks?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by baltassoc
And if their story is true, they are the most craven men imaginable. According to them, they were a few yards away from an injured man in the water, struggling to keep himself afloat, completely unharassed by enemy fire, and they just let him sit there until Kerry wheeled his boat around from supposedly high-tailing it out of harm's way and came all the way back.

nice spin

We shall see, I suppose. I don't trust the idea that either you nor I have any idea what is going on in the head of the "general public."

I'm just reacting to the polls. The bounce for Bush in August is being credited, at least in part, to the Swiftee.

I agree it's irrelevant, in that it didn't disqualify him from being president the first time. It's not irrelevant in that if you are going to condemn the supposed service, or lack there of, of Kerry, it's going to be used as a yardstick.

No one is comdeming the service, and several at the convention even praised it and received a warm round of applause. It's the lying about the service for ones own gain (if the allegations are true) and the statements and actions he made when he got back.