Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Coke

eta: We have a choice this year between a former base head (who is since redeemed) and a former war criminal. Take your pick.

Why would the coke keep him from taking a physical? I don't think they drug tested back then.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Of course, if you are one of those conservatives who likes to bitch and moan about government taking your money but doesn't actually want to vote according to these principles, you could vote for Bush and hope that he miraculously finds his veto pen in his second term. Hope springs eternal.

I'll hope for the pen and vote for the guy who won't let the French and the UN dictate our foreign agenda.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
This story is a perfect demonstration of the difference between the Swift Boat controversy and the National Guard controversy. Both are tales from long ago and both are related to Vietnam, but the documentary evidence in the two cases is like night and day. In the Swift Boat case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence indicates that Kerry's accusers are lying. Conversely, in the National Guard case, practically every new piece of documentary evidence provides additional confirmation that the charges against Bush are true.

Until Kerry unseals his records (now that the "Brinkley has exclusive rights" defense won't hold water), you need to withhold judgment on this one.

Speaking of Kerry's records, why isn't the liberal media clamoring for his medical (he did have cancer) and financial records.

[SlaveNoMore]

sgtclub
Coke

eta: We have a choice this year between a former base head (who is since redeemed) and a former war criminal. Take your pick.

I don't know who's worse lately, you or Sullivan?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
NATIONAL GUARD SMOKING GUN?

More from York in the Hill

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

• What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
  That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?
  
  News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:
  
  The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.
  
  That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.
  
  Not two years of weekends. Two years.
  
  After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.
  
  According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
  
  Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?
  
  That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).
  
  Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.
  
  “In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”
  
  So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.
  
  Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.
  
  In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.
  
  Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.
  
  During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.
  
  A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”
  
  A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”
  
  Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
  
  And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.
  
  The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.
  
  And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.
  
  In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”
  
  Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.
  
  That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.
  
  And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I don't know who's worse lately, you or Sullivan?

For some reason, I get preverse joy out of posting "Coke" - I need a vacation.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sgtclub
For some reason, I get preverse joy out of posting "Coke" - I need a vacation.

I used to get that same joy.

But - and this must be a regional thing - we never called it "posting".

This is kinda lame, but is there a website that lays out the basic positions and problems with Bush and Kerry that I can print out for non-political-non-internet-savvy people so they can at least make an informed decision in Nov.? * Thanks.

-TL

*And by this I mean my mom and dad who haven't touched a computer in their entire lives and would like to keep it that way, thank you very much.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by TexLex
This is kinda lame, but is there a website that lays out the basic positions and problems with Bush and Kerry that I can print out for non-political-non-internet-savvy people so they can at least make an informed decision in Nov.? * Thanks.

-TL

*And by this I mean my mom and dad who haven't touched a computer in their entire lives and would like to keep it that way, thank you very much.

Closest I've seen is a site that lays out the positions of politicians individually - no comparisons, so you have to click on both Bush's and Kerry's page.

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
More from York in the Hill

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

• What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
  That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?
  
  News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:
  
  The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.
  
  That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.
  
  Not two years of weekends. Two years.
  
  After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.
  
  According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
  
  Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?
  
  That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).
  
  Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.
  
  “In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”
  
  So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.
  
  Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.
  
  In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.
  
  Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.
  
  During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.
  
  A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”
  
  A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”
  
  Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
  
  And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.
  
  The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.
  
  And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.
  
  In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”
  
  Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.
  
  That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.
  
  And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.

Shorter York on Charles Manson: There were many days Charles Manson and his followers did not kill people.

By Bilmore's Kerry standards (aides addressing a sensitive topic such as this are deemed to have cleared their answers to questions with the Cheese), Bush lied when Bartlett earlier said that he had checked in with a National Guard unit when he moved to Boston to go to Harvard. Today we learned that wasn't true.

And your attack on the timing is pretty spurious. Bush earlier said he would release all the records. He didn't. It took an AP lawsuit to get some of these records released, and CBS found more. If he had come clean earlier, you wouldn't be hearing this story now.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Bush earlier said he would release all the records. He didn't. It took an AP lawsuit to get some of these records released, and CBS found more. If he had come clean earlier, you wouldn't be hearing this story now.

Ty, this is fucking BS and you know it. He ordered all records released. That they thereafter found microfilm, etc. that NO ONE thought existed is only further proof of the thoroughness of the search.

Now where the fuck are Kerry's records?*

*This is from the VRWC "Talking Points Memo" for next week, once Kerry stalls on their release and the rehash of this story drops him in the polls 3 more points.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Ty, this is fucking BS and you know it. He ordered all records released. That they thereafter found microfilm, etc. that NO ONE thought existed is only further proof of the thoroughness of the search.

Even if this is true, then Bush is the victim of somebody in the executive branch who botched the FOIA search, not the media. But I don't think it's true. I don't recall the details, but I recall descriptions of the records that some thought should be there and hadn't been released. There's a reason that the AP filed their suit, and I don't think it was to take a flier on the off-chance that someone botched the FOIA request.

Now where the fuck are Kerry's records?*

*This is from the VRWC "Talking Points Memo" for next week, once Kerry stalls on their release and the rehash of this story drops him in the polls 3 more points.

What Kerry records are you getting excited about?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
I used to get that same joy.

But - and this must be a regional thing - we never called it "posting".

POTD*

*for everyone but Hello. Hello won't find it funny.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by taxwonk
If the Iraqi people embrace democratization as a society, then four years ought to be enough time to put the foundation down and let them build their own system.

Where the hell did you come up with four years? What are you basing the claim that four years ought to be enough on?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
For some reason, I get preverse joy out of posting "Coke"

Kind of like how I feel about my implants and hoo-ha.