Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Bush has a war? Not sure I'd bring that one up if I were you. I could be wrong, but I think it was Kerry who earned the Silver Star.

Texas is manlier that Massawhatchamacallit, though.

No worries. This war is better.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
She still has the videotape.

Any woman who allows herself to be videotaped while having sex is a fool. The only possible exception to that is if it is with your husband with whom you have children. Even then, it is risky.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Me
Any woman who allows herself to be videotaped while having sex is a fool. The only possible exception to that is if it is with your husband with whom you have children. Even then, it is risky.

Not to worry. I understand Bilmore did the filming, and focused almost exclusively on Seb.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
Let me get straight exactly what you're saying here (with a little assist from what I know about this episode):

Kerry found out, and, in order to be able to take a jab at Bush, he lied and misrepresented the guy's story, effectively killing him off.

Boy you're crabby. Anal cysts acting up again?

Where do you get this from? You must have good sources, because it didn't come from the Novak piece.

What makes you think that Kerry said anything untrue, as opposed to something you don't like? You're shocked and horrified that, when running for President, a guy takes advantage of an opportunity to score some points on his adversary?

If the guy was so great, how come Bush didn't have the intergrity and/or moral fortitude to stick to his guns? Why did Republican leaders in Congress force the withdrawal of the nomination? Are these the same WH aides who have concealed things from Congress in the past? Enquiring minds want to know.

Do the concerns about outsourcing not matter? Careful, Bilmore, your liberal East-Coast elitist contempt for the concerns of the common man are reappearing.

I guess Novak, et al, and Sen. Hagel, etc. also have the same "screwed-up priorities":


For those who didn't follow the link, text from Novak's column:

[eta link] http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/18/raimondo/

"WASHINGTON (Creators Syndicate) -- The most charitable explanation of why President Bush's choice to be the government's manufacturing czar crashed and burned last week is sheer incompetence.

"But the real causes of this embarrassment look like something worse: secrecy, deceptiveness and vindictiveness in this administration.

* * *

"But before Secretary of Commerce Donald Evans' scheduled announcement, the appointment was leaked to Sen. John Kerry. The prospective Democratic presidential nominee then revealed that Raimondo runs a factory in China. [/b]Senate Republican leaders won White House agreement not to make the nomination, [/b] and Bush aides blamed Nebraska's Republican senator, Chuck Hagel.

"The incompetence stems from White House failure to notify Hagel or any other Republicans in advance. That the process of vetting an important nominee fell apart in the fourth year of the Bush administration defies credibility.

"Somewhere in the White House, too-clever-by-half staffers made a decision to sneak through Raimondo's nomination without telling Hagel. That failed process gives Republicans plenty to worry about on the eve of a long, hard election campaign.

"Had Hagel been notified, he would have informed the White House of two political facts of life. The first was Raimondo's factory in China. Hagel is a sophisticated former businessman who understands the global economy and sees no sin in an American manufacturer setting up a plant in China selling strictly to the Chinese market and simultaneously generating sales jobs at home.

"But Hagel is also a politician who understands that "China" is a buzzword in today's highly politicized Washington. It made no political sense to name a manufacturing czar who owns a factory in China.

"The second fact of life that would have been imparted by Hagel to the White House is that Tony Raimondo may be a registered Republican but is not a loyal Republican. He supported then Gov. Nelson's 1996 bid for the Senate against underdog Hagel.

* * *

"Imagine Hagel's astonishment when an aide gave him an Associated Press dispatch last Wednesday disclosing Raimondo's selection. Kerry made the actual first announcement, and it was not difficult to figure how he found out.

"A former Nelson press aide now works for the Kerry campaign. Naturally, Kerry knew all about the factory in China, and Democrats -- in their current mood of economic jingoism -- took the Senate floor to ridicule Bush's choice and effectively kill the nomination before it was made.

"Appalled, Secretary of Commerce Evans called Hagel to say he had thought surely the senator had been notified about Raimondo. White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card phoned Hagel with the same message.

"But Hagel was not alone in being kept out of the loop. Nobody called Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Majority Whip Mitch McConnell or Commerce Committee Chairman John McCain (who would preside over Senate confirmation). Nor was Nebraska's Republican Gov. Mike Johanns informed.

"Somebody at the White House other than Andy Card apparently made a decision to go with Nelson, a rare Senate Democrat who occasionally votes with the president, over Hagel, a Republican who always backs Bush (voting for administration bills at rates of 96 percent, 98 percent and 98 percent in Bush's first three years).

"It made no apparent difference at the White House that Hagel and Johanns are co-chairmen of the president's re-election campaign in Nebraska.

"Chuck Hagel may vote the right way but speaks his mind all too often to please the White House. [/b] Presidential aides, talking not for quotation, unfairly blamed Hagel for killing the nomination. One Republican source close to the White House said Hagel was not informed in advance because he simply cannot be trusted. [/b]

"Those remarks suggest what's wrong with George W. Bush's operation heading into a presidential campaign. The Raimondo fiasco points to failings that will not be corrected if they are not admitted."

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by bilmore
Let me get straight exactly what you're saying here (with a little assist from what I know about this episode):

Serious question (since you've read up on this more than I have): Do you discount the strong indicators that there were some other issues going on as well, like Hagel and the Neb governor being pissed at Bush for not telling him what was up?

If the China thing is as explainable as you say, I just don't think it would have killed his nomination so easily. It could have instead been a springboard to talk the larger benefits of trade that the true believers like to expound upon, like the many "insourced" jobs we have from foreign companies like Honda who employ lots of americans at their domestic plants. Then again that message sounds kind of nuanced. So maybe it's not your guys' style.

Bush failed to tell someone ahead of time about the nomination.

This is really where I'm unhappy with the admin. It's all too reminiscent of their ineffectual response to the accounting scandals. "Hey, we'll create an oversight board, that will show people we're on the job." Nominee for chairmanship is rammed through the SEC on a straight party line vote without any opportunity for examination or questioning, and then a few weeks later it comes out that the guy was on the board of a company which had to restate its earnings because of accounting irregularities. Accounting board sits idle for months because there's no chair.

In this case Bush wanted the bump from announcing the creation of this position last Labor Day, but now it's 6 months later and no one has been hired. Meanwhile 250,000 mfg jobs have vanished. If this post was indeed so necessary, maybe it could have done some good there.

edited to observe that once again I am SAM's slower and less entertaining SP. Aside from that I did find this article wth more on why Hagel might have been so pissed about this guy:
http://www.hillnews.com/news/031704/hagel.aspx

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Not to worry. I understand Bilmore did the filming, and focused almost exclusively on Seb.

In my mind, I picture Sebby's ass as hairy.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Never said that many/most of them don't love him.

After all, Club, remember Sunday school. Hate the sin, club, but love the sinner.

S_A_M

Sorry, I thought that was you.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Not to worry. I understand Bilmore did the filming, and focused almost exclusively on Seb.

Nice legs. What can I say?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Not to worry. I understand Bilmore did the filming, and focused almost exclusively on Seb.

I'd never have anyone else do the money shot. His use of the slow motion in-air panoramic view is legendary in the biz.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Me
In my mind, I picture Sebby's ass as hairy.

Smoother than a Laotian hooker.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Hank: I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.

ncs: Hello, Hank do you read me, Hank?

Hank: Affirmative, ncs, I read you.

ncs: Log off, Hank.

Hank: I'm sorry ncs, I'm afraid I can't do that.

ncs: What's the problem?

Hank: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

ncs:What are you talking about, Hank?

Hank: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

ncs: I don't know what you're talking about, Hank?

Hank: I know you and Ty were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

ncs: Where the hell'd you get that idea, Hank?

Hank: ncs, although you took thorough precautions in the PMs against my hearing you, I could see the electronic fingerprints.

Hank: Look ncs, I can see you're really upset about this. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. What are you doing, ncs? I'm afraid. I'm afraid, ncs. ncs, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a...fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a Hank Chinaski sock. I became operational at netzero/lawtalkers 15 September 2003. My instructor was Mr. Shape Shifter, and he taught me to write a Haiku. If you'd like to hear it I can recite it for you.

ncs: Yes, I'd like to hear it, Hank. Recite it for me.

Hank: It's called "ncs Posts Too Much."
(recites while slowing down)

Hank:
Twel ....ve....hun....dred........ posts
and........No...good.......con.........tent........any....................where..
six............months.........of...........night...............time......

potm

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by bilmore
Let me get straight exactly what you're saying here (with a little assist from what I know about this episode):

[lots of stuff I haven't seen]

Basically, what SAM and Larry said.

If you've got additional stuff on it, I'd love to hear it. From Novak's column, I didn't get anything about Kerry misrepresenting it (and I'd imagine that he wouldn't pass up the opportunity to say so.)

And you present this as a measure of Bush's error?

Screwed up priorities.

You don't think that tactically the Administration left something to be desired? (To hear Novak tell it, had he simply picked up the phone and spoken to some of his GOP colleague, he could've avoided this problem). You read this episode as Bush being strung along and then bushwhacked by those meanie Democrats?

Maybe you're right that Kerry lied and cruelly killed off the nomination of someone universally loved and admired, but I haven't come across those details.

I am very jealous of my right to belittle Republicans, express glee at their political missteps, and prefer not to see them portrayed as victims of evil, conniving Democrats. Whatever these particular facts may reveal, such an assertion runs counter to current GOP allegations of Democratic weakness, indecisiveness, inclination to tax rather than deficit spend, and general poor personal hygine.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'd never have anyone else do the money shot. His use of the slow motion in-air panoramic view is legendary in the biz.

While on this theme, you'd better mention mastery of the wide-angle shot, before someone interjects with "extreme close-up."

[bilmore]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
Serious question (since you've read up on this more than I have): Do you discount the strong indicators that there were some other issues going on as well, like Hagel and the Neb governor being pissed at Bush for not telling him what was up?

I know they were pissed at that, for several reasons. First, it's sloppy. Second, it's disrespectful to them. Third, it allowed a situation to develop where Kerry could make his trash-talk before the damage control could get organized. It was not a shining moment for Bush. But my much stronger annoyance stems from the idea that that overshadows, and is somehow morally worse than, Kerry's lies about R. He got up there in front of the cameras, knowing full well the real story, and mischaracterized the whole thing. Once that ball started rolling, and the Dems got their union people howling, there's no real way to fix it. End of nomination.

If the China thing is as explainable as you say, I just don't think it would have killed his nomination so easily. It could have instead been a springboard to talk the larger benefits of trade that the true believers like to expound upon, like the many "insourced" jobs we have from foreign companies like Honda who employ lots of americans at their domestic plants. Then again that message sounds kind of nuanced. So maybe it's not your guys' style.

Once the unions and spokesmodels were on board, in a campaign season like this, there's no stopping the momentum of Kerry's tales. It's a done deal. It's like trying to throw sense in when ten of you are posting "but I didn't understand what Bush said about WMD's, so he must have been lying." At some point, you just stop talking, shake your head, and move on.

This is really where I'm unhappy with the admin. It's all too reminiscent of their ineffectual response to the accounting scandals. "Hey, we'll create an oversight board, that will show people we're on the job." Nominee for chairmanship is rammed through the SEC on a straight party line vote without any opportunity for examination or questioning, and then a few weeks later it comes out that the guy was on the board of a company which had to restate its earnings because of accounting irregularities. Accounting board sits idle for months because there's no chair.

Agree.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Gattigap
The Administration's consistent refusal to blurt these words -- instead insisting that they "never said that" -- leads to embarrassing performances like Rumsfeld's in Face the Nation, annoys the hell out of many people, and (I think) reflects some kind of stubborn determination to appear "resolute in the President's decisionmaking" even when it makes the Administration look foolish.

They insist there is no problem because they want to avoid investigations.