All Hank, all the time.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In the middle of a war, with Islamo-fascist terrorists trying to kill us, why do you all spend so much time villifying honorable Americans for no good reason? Why do you care more about trashing political enemies than about fighting the war on terror?

These guys are supposed to represent us and constitute our government. When questioned about a major terrorist organization (which has officially been condemned by many countries including our's as a terrorist organization) our government rep does not simply say he's against the terror organization. Instead, he says he won't pick sides between our ally, Israel, and Hezbollah. The only qualification he makes to this scary statement is that he is against violence, so he is against Hezbollah using violence.

You're worried that if we "thrash" Dingell, that means we like doing that more than fighting the war on terror. What's up with that? Like we shouldn't criticize bullshit statements made by our reps just because we're in the middle of a war on terror? And by the way, travel to a Muslim country and you'll find that Muslims LOVE these quotes. They are printed in the newspapers and everyone loves to use them as proof that "even some in the U.S. government recognize our standing as an organization." Dingell is not some hack blogger; he's a representative of our U.S. government who screwed up, screwed up on the topic of terrorist Muslims, and screwed up at a really bad time. Fuck. That. Noise.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Against my better judgment, sanity, and the interests of my billable hours, I went and read the link.

Ty -- while I may agree with you about the Repub penchant for attacking and blaming and finger-pointing -- essentially, fighting their political opponents rather than fighting the country's military opponents -- I cannot agree with you on Dingell. His statement was anemic, to say the least. I confess to having skimmed over the loooooong part, but if there is something in there that identifies Hezbollah as the terrorist, the aggressor, the bastards who use Lebanese as human shields, you haven't identified it. The rest of his statement did cast Israel and Hezbollah as equally at fault, and equally bad actors.

One reason I've been so acid-filled in these Israel discussions is my concern that my brethren on the left do just this. Let us never forget who the terrorists here are.

And, let us never forget that our country suffers when people refuse to criticize members of their own party. See, e.g., Iraq.

See the bolded text above, which apparently you missed. Too used to having associates read documents for you and highlight the key parts.

I agree that Dingell was not as blunt in criticizing Hezbollah as I would be. But that's not what Hanson said.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It appears DK has my proxy.

Or that DK is your sock.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Bullshit he did.

"Dingell's full statement: "No, I happen to be -- I happen to be against violence, I think the United States has to bring resolution to this matter. Now, I condemn Hezbollah as does everybody else, for the violence."

Why does he qualify it? I condemn Hezbollah, period. They are a terrorist organisation and I refuse to legitmise any part of them by qualifying my condemnation. Much in the same way I condemn Hitler. Fully. Without qualification. Not just for the holocaust. For everything. Including the bad artwork.

What is Dingell reserving? Hezbollah's right to be a "peaceful state aparatus in the Bekkaa valley?

Ty, I challenge you, condemn Hezbollah, without qualification. Show Dingbat the way! It will feel good and righteous.

Can you do it? Or do hate Israel and by extension America?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Or that DK is your sock.

the first time I read that I saw "suck". Kinky.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Also, you're confusing medicine with public health. Public health is about treating populations and finding out what causes disease so it can be avoided. Epidemeology, the field of study that you've ranted the most against, is a public health discipline. It's the reason we drink clean water. It's the reason we pinpointed the HIV virus as a sexually transmitted disease. It's the way we track Avian flu.

Medicine is about treating individuals. It is completely anecdotal in nature, and it depends almost entirely on the individual patient. If you flip through a medical journal, say JAMA or the New England Journal, you'll find a lot of case studies and randomized trials. (This week, it's all HIV all the time, because of the AIDS conference.) If you show up at grand rounds in any teaching hosptial, usually the presentations are on various individual cases. Drug and other interventional trails are also based on randomized reports of individual cases. When the results of an intervention start to a) be beneficial and b) generate the same results in different patients with the same disease, the intervention is adopted as the standard treatment.

In some respects, public health is an attempt to avoid having to resort to medicine. The goal of public health is to keep the population healthy so that medicine is not needed. Once you get sick, the public health part is irrelevant (except, of course, you're now a data point for future public health research) and the medicine part kicks in. Your doctor isn't worried about what got you there; they're worried about how to fix you. He or she is going to tell you about what's going on with you personally and he or she is going to make treatment and diagnosis decisions based on your individual history (including family history, social history, lifestyle and your physical condition (height, weight, blood tests, x-rays, CT scans, and any other diagostic tools that he or she uses in his or her practice)).

So your rant is against public health, not medicine. I, for one, am a fan of John Snow, and I vaguely subscribe to the germ theory of disease. Your milage may differ.

I heart you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Why does he qualify it? I condemn Hezbollah, period. They are a terrorist organisation and I refuse to legitmise any part of them by qualifying my condemnation. Much in the same way I condemn Hitler. Fully. Without qualification. Not just for the holocaust. For everything. Including the bad artwork.

What is Dingell reserving? Hezbollah's right to be a "peaceful state aparatus in the Bekkaa valley?

Ty, I challenge you, condemn Hezbollah, without qualification. Show Dingbat the way! It will feel good and righteous.

Can you do it? Or do hate Israel and by extension America?

What the fuck is your problem? Why do you jones to trash Democrats for this sort of thing? Dingell did not put things the way I would, but you this is twisted.

And Sidd -- do you see what your Lieberman-style crap leads to? You try to sound reasonable, and you just provide cover for this bullshit.

eta:

From the article above:

• He also said in a release Tuesday that he signed a July 28 letter from U.S. Reps. Robert Wexler, D-Fla., and Elton Gallegly, R-Calif., calling on the European Union to add Hezbollah to the EU terrorist organization list. Dingell said it was the second time he has called on the EU to classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

Penske/Diane/Sidd --

Your most recent posts did not unequivocally condemn North Korea and Iran! Why do you refuse to condemn North Korea and Iran? Why do you hate America?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Bullshit he did.

"Dingell's full statement: "No, I happen to be -- I happen to be against violence, I think the United States has to bring resolution to this matter. Now, I condemn Hezbollah as does everybody else, for the violence."

Dingell said he was pointing out that if the United States is to be an honest broker in the Middle East, it must talk to both sides."

Why do you conservatives hate Democrats? When we're trying to fight a war on terrorists, why do you keep trying to divide us?

United we stand.

God, you're being obtuse

DINGELL: Well, we don’t, first of all, I don’t take sides for or against Hezbollah or for or against Israel.

He isn't equating the two here, Ty?

ANCHOR: You’re not against Hezbollah?

DINGELL: No, I happen to be — I happen to be against violence,

Hem haw. Why the hedge, Ty?

I think the United States has to bring resolution to this matter. Now, I condemn Hezbollah as does everybody else, for the violence, but ....

Why the but? What is there to qualify, Ty?

...but I think if we’ve got to talk to them and if we don’t — if we don’t get ourselves in a position where we can talk to both sides and bring both sides together...

Bring both sides together? Let's sit the terrorists and their victims down together for dinner, Ty. Maybe a nice Zin to start?

... the killing and the blood let is going to continue.

Yes Ty, the terrorists will continue to kill people. What an astute fellow.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What the fuck is your problem? Why do you jones to trash Democrats for this sort of thing? Dingell did not put things the way I would, but you this is twisted.

Ty,

Dingell is a smart dude. A lawyer. He went to Georgetown Law, which is like a top 20 school. He is a longtime legislator. I have to believe that he knows that words have very specific meanings. There was a reason he qualified that statement or else I have to believe, he would not have.

Call him up, maybe you can get him to reissue the statement. If you'd like I could call my senators and see if they have any pull.

In the meantime, you ducked my invite to condemn Hezbollah, why?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop


And Sidd -- do you see what your Lieberman-style crap leads to? You try to sound reasonable, and you just provide cover for this bullshit.

Interesting to see the Lamontian rift grow.

Go Joe, go!

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop


Penske/Diane/Sidd --

Your most recent posts did not unequivocally condemn North Korea and Iran! Why do you refuse to condemn North Korea and Iran? Why do you hate America?

I condemn North Korea.

I condemn Iran, except for the innocent oppressed citisens who are part of it against their will, Allah be praised!

I love America! G-d Bless her!

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
God, you're being obtuse

Bring both sides together? Let's sit the terrorists and their victims down together for dinner, Ty. Maybe a nice Zin to start?
.

Box or bottle?

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Bullshit he did.

"Dingell's full statement: "No, I happen to be -- I happen to be against violence, I think the United States has to bring resolution to this matter. Now, I condemn Hezbollah as does everybody else, for the violence."

So why didn't you boldface the "for the violence" part? Look, the U.S. is one of the countries that has condemned Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, period. NOT JUST THE SECURITY ARM or terrorist arm of Hezbollah, whatever, like some other countries have. And you're wondering why the guy is getting knocked for this?

[Penske_Account]

Did anyone else get Julia Sweeney? Is she a leading lite of atheisticism?

Ambiguous Pat seemed like an atheist...

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Ty,

Dingell is a smart dude. A lawyer. He went to Georgetown Law, which is like a top 20 school. He is a longtime legislator. I have to believe that he knows that words have very specific meanings. There was a reason he qualified that statement or else I have to believe, he would not have.

Call him up, maybe you can get him to reissue the statement. If you'd like I could call my senators and see if they have any pull.

In the meantime, you ducked my invite to condemn Hezbollah, why?



Interesting to see the Lamontian rift grow.

Go Joe, go!



I condemn North Korea.

I condemn Iran, except for the innocent oppressed citisens who are part of it against their will, Allah be praised!

I love America! G-d Bless her!

I note that your condemnation of Iran is qualified, and says nothing specifically about Iran supporting Hezbollah terrorists. Why do you support Hezbollah terorrists? And you do not condemn racism and zoning violations! Why do you support racism and zoning violations?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
So why didn't you boldface the "for the violence" part? Look, the U.S. is one of the countries that has condemned Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, period. NOT JUST THE SECURITY ARM or terrorist arm of Hezbollah, whatever, like some other countries have. And you're wondering why the guy is getting knocked for this?

STP and you will see that Dingell supports designating Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Although perhaps you have read enough Victor Davis Hanson to think that means he supports them. Meanwhile, you refused to condemn North Korea and Iran. Why do you support North Korea and Iran?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I note that your condemnation of Iran is qualified, and says nothing specifically about Iran supporting Hezbollah terrorists. Why do you support Hezbollah terorrists? And you do not condemn racism and zoning violations! Why do you support racism and zoning violations?

My condemnation of Iran, on its face, implicitly condemned its support of Hezbollah, but to the extent that it didnt', I unqualifiedly condemn Iran's support of Hezbollah.

Unlike you, apparently, I do not need to qualify it as "Hezbollah terrorists", because Hezbollah by definition is a terrorist.

I do condemn racism, w/o qualification.

I do NOT condemn zoning violations. I condemn zoning and its infringement on the people's natural rights to freely use their land in the grand American tradition of property rights. Why do you want to take my land or that of my fellow Americans Ty? Do you hate America?