General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[taxwonk]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

One of my nieces is a high school sophomore. She's a little high-strung -- trust me, she comes by it honestly -- but otherwise seems like a totally normal kid. She's witty, a fast talker (it seems they all are at that age), and empathetic. Her parents are both pretty successful in their fields and can both be a little retentive, but their home life is comfortable and at the high-end range of functioning. She lives on the East Coast so we don't see her all the time, but when she talks about problems it seems like normal teen girl trauma -- school, bitchy friends, and more school.

So here's the thing -- we just found out that they're thinking of putting her on Xanax. Her mom says that some of her friends are already on it, and it has improved their outlook a great deal.

I'm outraged. Of course, I don't have complete insight into her day-to-day, but with the information that I know and putting it into the preexisting narrative of What I Think Is Wrong With America, this seems completely wrong to me.

I appreciate that there are real things called mood disorders and that some people need medication in order to do chemically what their brain cannot do organically. I get that. Depression and anxiety are real things.

But so is being a teenager. Let's assume that there's something going on here where she's struggling more than I've been led to know. Still, I'm gobsmacked that someone would even consider taking a teenager and attempting to treat symptoms without knowing whether she has a permanent condition that requires medication. Call me silly, but I thought these drugs were supposed to be prescribed when other approaches to a particular pathology had failed. I've go no objections at all to adults taking these drugs, because I trust that they would only do so as adults, figuring out that they needed to get past whatever was blocking their uptake of life's happiness. But a fucking teenager? If my kids are frustrated, anxious and unhappy at age 15 that's how I'll know they're growing up correctly. I didn't realize that adolescence, even in its extreme pathological form, was a condition requiring medication.

Am I being too, pardon the phrase, prescriptive here? Am I old-fashioned to think that pharmaceutical mood alteration is pretty serious stuff, and that even if she experiences a positive outcome there's still moral risk here?

I take xanax because I have severe coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure, and a history of unstable angina. I find I generally take my xanax about one-third of the presecribed dosage.

When did she have her life-threatening health event that makes keeping her on a low purr sort of a medical necessity?

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally Posted by taxwonk

I take xanax because I have severe coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure, and a history of unstable angina. I find I generally take my xanax about one-third of the presecribed dosage.

When did she have her life-threatening health event that makes keeping her on a low purr sort of a medical necessity?

I take xanax because I like it.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

One of my nieces is a high school sophomore. She's a little high-strung -- trust me, she comes by it honestly -- but otherwise seems like a totally normal kid. She's witty, a fast talker (it seems they all are at that age), and empathetic. Her parents are both pretty successful in their fields and can both be a little retentive, but their home life is comfortable and at the high-end range of functioning. She lives on the East Coast so we don't see her all the time, but when she talks about problems it seems like normal teen girl trauma -- school, bitchy friends, and more school.

So here's the thing -- we just found out that they're thinking of putting her on Xanax. Her mom says that some of her friends are already on it, and it has improved their outlook a great deal.

I'm outraged. Of course, I don't have complete insight into her day-to-day, but with the information that I know and putting it into the preexisting narrative of What I Think Is Wrong With America, this seems completely wrong to me.

I appreciate that there are real things called mood disorders and that some people need medication in order to do chemically what their brain cannot do organically. I get that. Depression and anxiety are real things.

But so is being a teenager. Let's assume that there's something going on here where she's struggling more than I've been led to know. Still, I'm gobsmacked that someone would even consider taking a teenager and attempting to treat symptoms without knowing whether she has a permanent condition that requires medication. Call me silly, but I thought these drugs were supposed to be prescribed when other approaches to a particular pathology had failed. I've go no objections at all to adults taking these drugs, because I trust that they would only do so as adults, figuring out that they needed to get past whatever was blocking their uptake of life's happiness. But a fucking teenager? If my kids are frustrated, anxious and unhappy at age 15 that's how I'll know they're growing up correctly. I didn't realize that adolescence, even in its extreme pathological form, was a condition requiring medication.

Am I being too, pardon the phrase, prescriptive here? Am I old-fashioned to think that pharmaceutical mood alteration is pretty serious stuff, and that even if she experiences a positive outcome there's still moral risk here?

Phrases like "some of her friends are already on it" drive my blood pressure to new levels. Too many parents succomb to peer pressure. But, I do know of situations where drugs were not only useful, but almost indispensible, and you might not see them all from afar. Perfectly normal, enthusiastic kids may be unable to focus enough to get through reading a book. Pyschotropic drugs gave us David Foster Wallace's novels, too, so they have some redeeming value.

I am a firm believer though, that drugs should be a last resort, and the earlier resorts should include religion, travel, diet modification, mutliple physician consults (including a good neurologist), a regular night at the theatre with her parents, and even psychological quakery. I've heard success stories for each of these - perhaps most regularly for diet modification and neurological consults. Suggest some of these alternatives. And let me know if you need expamples of cases where they worked.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Phrases like "some of her friends are already on it" drive my blood pressure to new levels. Too many parents succomb to peer pressure. But, I do know of situations where drugs were not only useful, but almost indispensible, and you might not see them all from afar. Perfectly normal, enthusiastic kids may be unable to focus enough to get through reading a book. Pyschotropic drugs gave us David Foster Wallace's novels, too, so they have some redeeming value.

I am a firm believer though, that drugs should be a last resort, and the earlier resorts should include religion, travel, diet modification, mutliple physician consults (including a good neurologist), a regular night at the theatre with her parents, and even psychological quakery. I've heard success stories for each of these - perhaps most regularly for diet modification and neurological consults. Suggest some of these alternatives. And let me know if you need expamples of cases where they worked.

On the other hand, and I know this is going to be an unpopular position, you aren't this child's parent. Nor is Atticus. Nor am I.

I'm doing my best to parent the Brazenette. I make decisions about what's in her best interest, because I am her mother, because I love her to distraction, because I know her better than any other living person. Sometimes I make good decisions and sometimes I make bad decisions. But the bottom line is, as her parent, those decisions are mine to make. It is my obligation, my burden and my joy. And I rankle at the idea that anyone other than me knows better what decision I should have made...

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

On the other hand, and I know this is going to be an unpopular position, you aren't this child's parent. Nor is Atticus. Nor am I.

I'm doing my best to parent the Brazenette. I make decisions about what's in her best interest, because I am her mother, because I love her to distraction, because I know her better than any other living person. Sometimes I make good decisions and sometimes I make bad decisions. But the bottom line is, as her parent, those decisions are mine to make. It is my obligation, my burden and my joy. And I rankle at the idea that anyone other than me knows better what decision I should have made...

I agree that I have no reason to stick my nose into their business. But he's an Uncle - he gets to interfere. In my family, uncles often interfere in their nieces and nephews lives, even when they're not the father.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

On the other hand, and I know this is going to be an unpopular position, you aren't this child's parent. Nor is Atticus. Nor am I.

I'm doing my best to parent the Brazenette. I make decisions about what's in her best interest, because I am her mother, because I love her to distraction, because I know her better than any other living person. Sometimes I make good decisions and sometimes I make bad decisions. But the bottom line is, as her parent, those decisions are mine to make. It is my obligation, my burden and my joy. And I rankle at the idea that anyone other than me knows better what decision I should have made...

am i on ignore?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I agree that I have no reason to stick my nose into their business. But he's an Uncle - he gets to interfere. In my family, uncles often interfere in their nieces and nephews lives, even when they're not the father.

most families, especially ones separated by a continent, this isn't so true.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I agree that I have no reason to stick my nose into their business. But he's an Uncle - he gets to interfere. In my family, uncles often interfere in their nieces and nephews lives, even when they're not the father.

Absent a request for input, I would smack either of my brothers who felt it was within their rights to interfere.

My brothers would assume that I'd done my homework, weighted all alternatives, and made an informed and loving decision.

Why should Atticus assume otherwise, or that he somehow knows better?

[Cletus Miller]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

Why should Atticus assume otherwise, or that he somehow knows better?

You do read his posts, don't you?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by bold_n_brazen

Absent a request for input, I would smack either of my brothers who felt it was within their rights to interfere.

he plans on saying something over the phone.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller

You do read his posts, don't you?

Yay! I'm not on ignore!

Yeah, I get that it's meddling. Family dynamics are such that everyone is allowed to judge one another without too many hurt feelings, because a sense of humor about oneself is prized above all else, but this particular sister is known to lash out over parenting issues in violation of the general rule. Chances I will say something to her are in the low zeroes. I just wanted to know if my emotional response to it was off-base, so I know which side of the family's whispering campaign I should join. I'm leaning toward the "What a terrible decision to face; I would have done the opposite" camp.

[Hank Chinaski]

we had the bizarro of AG's issue come.

Freshman year our daughter hears from a friend that em get ritalin for ADD. ADD is described and daughter realizes that the symptoms might well explain why she can't study. That is, it's not the nightly beer pong to blame for the poor grades, it's organic.

she tells us she is getting the meds, we tell her she is nuts and she reminds us she is 18. fun times.

luckily she got distracted by something else and forgot.

as Atticus can attest, she has moved on to crafting very creative Halloween coustumes.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

Yay! I'm not on ignore!

Yeah, I get that it's meddling. Family dynamics are such that everyone is allowed to judge one another without too many hurt feelings, because a sense of humor about oneself is prized above all else, but this particular sister is known to lash out over parenting issues in violation of the general rule. Chances I will say something to her are in the low zeroes. I just wanted to know if my emotional response to it was off-base, so I know which side of the family's whispering campaign I should join. I'm leaning toward the "What a terrible decision to face; I would have done the opposite" camp.

hmm. any chance Zoraster spoke on a similar question in – Avesta.

[John Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

she tells us she is getting the meds, we tell her she is nuts

No pun intended, I'm sure.

[robustpuppy]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I agree that I have no reason to stick my nose into their business. But he's an Uncle - he gets to interfere. In my family, uncles often interfere in their nieces and nephews lives, even when they're not the father.

I say this with all affection for Atticus and with recognition that I frequently offer my own opinion where it's not wanted, but this is a parental decision and all other tongues should be held.

And I would say that maybe you should reconsider your interference with your siblings' parenting decisions, too, but then I'd be peeing in a tent where my nose doesn't belong, or something like that.

He doesn't live in their house or in the girl's head, and his niece's current situation is not about What Is Wrong With America but about what is going on in her life. That her other friends are on Xanax is irrelevant.

It's up to her parents to determine whether it's garden-variety teen angst or anxiety warranting treatment, and whether that treatment should be pharmaceutical or more "holistic." Moreover, children can and do have anxiety and depression that may respond to medication. It's no more normal for a child to have a mood disorder than it is for an adult. To say that high school is stressful is to say that life is stressful. If she were in her 20s and in law school, would you be so quick to chalk up whatever she's going through to academic stress? If in her 30s and at a law firm, job stress? In her 40s, sandwich-generation stress? In the nursing home, realizing that even at death's door, life is like high school stress?

Of course, if Atticus thought that their parenting judgment were severely compromised for some reason, such as drug or alcohol abuse or severe dysfunction in the home - which he stated is not the case - then he would have grounds to step in. But as to a mere difference of opinion and philosophy - no matter how strongly held those opinions are - well, it's just not his place.