Merry Generic Winter Day-Off With No Religious Content

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Depends on how inadvertent, but yes. If you have :30 left in a four-point game and there's a completion down to the 10-yard line, and the penalty would move the ball to the 5, and the contact is incidental, don't throw the flag. The reason to penalize inadvertent penalties is to incent (I hate that word) more careful play, but that goal should be subordinated at the end of a close game.

Flattens? Doesn't sound inadvertent. Maybe that the key to what I'm saying.

Although I've already sent something similar to this in a pm (which you "accidentally" deleted before reading, you bastard), I'll tackle it again, trying* to keep it short.

There are two things I have a problem with in this post.

(1) Your continued willingness to ignore the concept of an "automatic" penalty; and

(2) The fact that you think certain rules should be overlooked at the end of a close game.

As for (1), I'm pretty sure I already posted that you really just have a problem with the concept of an automatic penalty altogether, and not necessarily just at the end of a game, so I won't go into that again. But, the fact that you acknowledge that there are rules against inadvertent or unintentional activity means that you accept the fact that the NFL deems it necessary to assess a penalty even if an act was accidental.

I can think of a thousand calls that would and should be made at the end (or beginning) of the game that can be blamed on inadvertent activity. The one you used earlier is probably best. If a punt returner calls for a fair catch and someone on the kicking team trips and runs into him and the punt returner falls, but then gets up and makes the catch anyway, you think no penalty should be assessed at the end of a game because (i) it was inadvertent and (ii) it did not affect game play.

Sounds good, but the fact is, like the quarterback who gets hit in the head constantly, the punt returner is extremely vulnerable when concentrating on the kick. The League has determined that because of this vulnerability, defenders need to exercise extra caution when making plays in these circumstances. The automatic call the refs are forced to make are there to ensure that the appropriate level of caution is taken. And since every team has notice and the rule is (in theory) applied consistently, then you barrel at the punt returner or the quarterback at your own risk. I don't see why the League would want less care taken at the end of games than at the beginning.

Also, better teams commit fewer penalties and are more disciplined. You want to reward the less disciplined teams at the end of games. That makes no sense.

As for (2), I don't know how much sports you've played, but the most infuriating thing for a player whose team has been called for a foul or penalty 15 times during a game is to not have that call made for him at the end of the game because the end of the game is somehow more important and that call less important in the eyes of the ref.

This is what I was talking about when I said the rules are the rules. You can't agree on rules by which you're going to play a game, play the game by those rules 99% of the time and then eliminate the ones you don't like at the end.

Take basketball as an example. If I've been called 5 times during a game for a hand check and am in danger of fouling out, which in turn affects my aggressiveness on offense and defense, then don't fucking tell me that that obvious hand-check that kept me from making a specific kind of move during the last possession of a game shouldn't be called because you want the "players to decide the game." That is stupid, inconsistent and unfair to everyone on the court.

The same goes for the penalties you think shouldn't be called at the end of a football game. Everyone has been playing by the rules the whole game, being extra careful not to hit the quarterback late or to draw a penalty** because they got their hands up at the wrong time and you want to let someone go at the end because you think the penalty is no longer important? Ridiculous.

TM

*Not really.

**Or not being careful and being penalized for it (quite possibly on the most important play of the game which could happen in the second quarter).

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Well, my bf has to go to work during the week and I don't see you making yourself available, so what is an electrolyte-depleted girl to do?

I can't make my cock available to every electrolyte-depleted, cock hungry girl after a workout, you know.

TM

[Adder]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I can't make my cock available to every electrolyte-depleted, cock hungry girl after a workout, you know.

TM

Yeah, but you could try. How about showing a little effort once in awhile?

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I can't make my cock available to every electrolyte-depleted, cock hungry girl after a workout, you know.

TM

I am aware of your busy schedule. But I am not every electrolyte-depleted, cock-hungry girl, you know.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
In my experience, Gatorade is fruity, not vanilla.

Yet another definitional disconnect. Oh the humanity!

Drink water and eat an apple.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Although I've already sent something similar to this in a pm (which you "accidentally" deleted before reading, you bastard), I'll tackle it again, trying* to keep it short.

There are two things I have a problem with in this post.

(1) Your continued willingness to ignore the concept of an "automatic" penalty; and

I get the concept, but I take it with a grain of salt.

(2) The fact that you think certain rules should be overlooked at the end of a close game.

Overlooked? No. Applied with a different burden of proof, perhaps.

As for (1), I'm pretty sure I already posted that you really just have a problem with the concept of an automatic penalty altogether, and not necessarily just at the end of a game, so I won't go into that again. But, the fact that you acknowledge that there are rules against inadvertent or unintentional activity means that you accept the fact that the NFL deems it necessary to assess a penalty even if an act was accidental.

Yes. That is what the rules say. A fact which impresses you more than me, apparently.

I can think of a thousand calls that would and should be made at the end (or beginning) of the game that can be blamed on inadvertent activity.

Probably best to send that list by PM. This time, send it to my Pretty Little Flower sock -- I'm pretty sure that Inbox isn't full right now.

The one you used earlier is probably best. If a punt returner calls for a fair catch and someone on the kicking team trips and runs into him and the punt returner falls, but then gets up and makes the catch anyway, you think no penalty should be assessed at the end of a game because (i) it was inadvertent and (ii) it did not affect game play.

That doesn't sound inadvertent at all. But if there's contact between the player on the kicking team and the blocker, I'm saying ref ought to be more certain that the player wasn't blocked into the returner at the end of the game than he is at the start.

Sounds good, but the fact is, like the quarterback who gets hit in the head constantly, the punt returner is extremely vulnerable when concentrating on the kick. The League has determined that because of this vulnerability, defenders need to exercise extra caution when making plays in these circumstances. The automatic call the refs are forced to make are there to ensure that the appropriate level of caution is taken. And since every team has notice and the rule is (in theory) applied consistently, then you barrel at the punt returner or the quarterback at your own risk. I don't see why the League would want less care taken at the end of games than at the beginning.

Because the rules serve different goals. One is to ensure an appropriate level of caution. Another is to establish a regime where the players decide the outcome rather than the referees. At the end of a play-off game, these factors weigh differently. And let's face it: What I'm saying applies with much more force to a conference championship than it does to the first game of the season, or, for that matter, to a pre-season game, even though the same rules ostensibly apply.

Also, better teams commit fewer penalties and are more disciplined. You want to reward the less disciplined teams at the end of games. That makes no sense.

"Reward" in the sense of "punish less."

As for (2), I don't know how much sports you've played, but the most infuriating thing for a player whose team has been called for a foul or penalty 15 times during a game is to not have that call made for him at the end of the game because the end of the game is somehow more important and that call less important in the eyes of the ref.

I've played plenty of sports, and watched plenty of sports, and I don't think that's the most infuriating thing. Moreover, the NFL is surely more interested in how the fans perceive the integrity and quality of the games than it is in how infuriated the players are, and having playoff games' outcomes affected by the refs' calls is a Bad Thing.l

In my experience, players adjust their play in response to the refs' calls, so (from the refs perspective) if you call a decent game there's less to call at the end. Maybe that's more a basketball thing. I have reffed my share of basketball.

This is what I was talking about when I said the rules are the rules. You can't agree on rules by which you're going to play a game, play the game by those rules 99% of the time and then eliminate the ones you don't like at the end.

When you put it this way, you convince me.

Actually, no. I was just kidding.

Take basketball as an example. If I've been called 5 times during a game for a hand check and am in danger of fouling out, which in turn affects my aggressiveness on offense and defense, then don't fucking tell me that that obvious hand-check that kept me from making a specific kind of move during the last possession of a game shouldn't be called because you want the "players to decide the game." That is stupid, inconsistent and unfair to everyone on the court.

As I said before somewhere, what I am describing tends to reward physical play, especially in the play-offs. I'm OK with that.

The same goes for the penalties you think shouldn't be called at the end of a football game. Everyone has been playing by the rules the whole game, being extra careful not to hit the quarterback late or to draw a penalty** because they got their hands up at the wrong time and you want to let someone go at the end because you think the penalty is no longer important? Ridiculous.

Yes, when you put my views in absurd way, they sound absurd. Have you met my friend Spanky?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Except that the correct term is malum in se.

Good point. But his spelling was impeccable.

S_A_M

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Adder
Yeah, but you could try. How about showing a little effort once in awhile?

The wig and makeup aren't fooling anyone, Adder.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

[i]lots and


lots and



lots


of stuff

take it to the PB.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Though he didn't specifically address spit, I think Penske's okay with it, as long as it's not infectious with the STD cooties.

You didn't drop a NFH is any ear wax in there, did you?

NFH is a Penske sock? now I get it!

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
I would kill for your resume. You're the guy who went to Yale, right?

Hank, take notes: This is how you hit on a str8 guy. Well done.

[Replaced_Texan]

FWIW, I tend to agree more with Thurgreed than Ty on this. A foul is a foul, no matter how much time is left on the clock.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Take basketball as an example. If I've been called 5 times during a game for a hand check and am in danger of fouling out,
TM

no offense, but i'm the only one posting here that had the chance to get 6 fouls a game*






*and that was from a clerical error.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
Hank, take notes: This is how you hit on a str8 guy. Well done.

Drink water and eat a peach.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Please define "current climate" and explain how you think it came to be.

Global warming that came as a result of [etd-TOOK IT TO THE PB].