Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(Are Nazis "right-wing" enough for you?)S_A_M

Yeah, that "socialist" part in their name certainly puts them on the Right. What, if anything, did they do that you would characterize in any way as being part of the Right?

ETA As to the larger point, I admire the ACLU for its stands sometimes, almost always on the general 1st amendment rights stuff.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Zogby has released a round of battleground polls (these have been being done daily, but are only available to subscribers).

The latest show Bush having a slight lead in Ohio and Florida, but very vulnerable in the border states and North Carolina (within the margin of error in VA, NC, TN, and WV).

This would explain why they're letting Cheney out. They need him to do his thing for Virginia and North Carolina, but hopefully without losing Florida or Ohio in the process.

Last week something said Kerry pulled out of Va. conceding it. Who is to say.....

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This blog makes the case:

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/archives/001570.html

This blog, to which your blog links for a counterpoint -- comes to the opposite conclusion.

And makes fascinating reading.

http://windsofchange.net/archives/005756.php

S_A_M

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Last week something said Kerry pulled out of Va. conceding it. Who is to say.....

Kerry pulled some staff out of VA and sent them to Ohio. He still has as many staff in Virginia as Bush does; on top of that, he has Mark Warner, the Gov., doing a full court press. That's the big reason why Virginia is so surprisingly strong.

If Kerry wins with Virginia in the D column, Mark Warner will be Edwards principal competition for the face of the Dems in the South, and almost certainly a future Presidential candidate.

Edwards is the obvious reason North Carolina is in play; he probably has enough strength to make it close, but a win would be surprising. Tennesse and W.Va., of course, are traditional swing states, but states Bush thought he'd already put away.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Yeah, that "socialist" part in their name certainly puts them on the Right. What, if anything, did they do that you would characterize in any way as being part of the Right?

They are fascists, and fascists are conventionally depicted as being to the far right end of the political spectrum.

Of course, in many practical ways the Nazis aren't too different from the totalitarian socialists of the old Soviet Union, the old China, et al.

This implies both that (1) the political spectrum is essentially, a cylinder (or a continuous band, if you prefer), and (2) the far right and far left "mainstreams" in America are essentially mirror images of each other well towards the center.

We make such a huge deal over many differences which are, in the end, only small differences in degree. Nader is correct about this, at least.

S_A_M

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Often after smart dinner parties, Picasso would have Guernica wheeled out for his guests to enjoy.

At one such party, in 1946, amongst the guests was former Prime Minister Churchill. He was questioned as to whether the painting's shifting images and cubist structure set forth the truth about war. Churchill took a long draw on his cigar, and wandered along the length of the work......

Finally...."Sir, I can discern nothing in this painting other than bits of images that I may perceive hold some meaning. That is to say there is nothing set forth clearly by the painting, no truths at all that I perceive, and as such, I suppose it is an accurate statement of the truth about war. Yes I think so."

I think the Picasso parable works here. Interesting account of Tora Bora.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p01s03-wosc.html

And on Nov 29, Vice President Dick Cheney told ABC's "Primetime Live" that, according to the reports that were coming in, bin Laden was in Tora Bora."I think he was equipped to go to ground there," Mr. Cheney said. "He's got what he believes to be a fairly secure facility. He's got caves underground; it's an area he's familiar with."


But it's irrelevant because W has said we don't have to worry about OBL anyway.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
They are fascists, and fascists are conventionally depicted as being to the far right end of the political spectrum.

Of course, in many practical ways the Nazis aren't too different from the totalitarian socialists of the old Soviet Union, the old China, et al.

This implies both that (1) the political spectrum is essentially, a cylinder (or a continuous band, if you prefer), and (2) the far right and far left "mainstreams" in America are essentially mirror images of each other well towards the center.

We make such a huge deal over many differences which are, in the end, only small differences in degree. Nader is correct about this, at least.

S_A_M

Agreed that the far left and far right are essentially mirror images of each other in some ways. I'm just questioning how the convention came to depict them at the far right of the spectrum. Except for Mussolini getting the trains to run on time, those people share nothing with people like Buckley. Take out the hatred and elbow-room stuff, and you have run-of-the-mill socialism run amok.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Agreed that the far left and far right are essentially mirror images of each other in some ways. I'm just questioning how the convention came to depict them at the far right of the spectrum. Except for Mussolini getting the trains to run on time, those people share nothing with people like Buckley. Take out the hatred and elbow-room stuff, and you have run-of-the-mill socialism run amok.

Buckley, of course, has often described himself as a liberal - in the original, 19th century use of the term.

First, not much socialist about them - they very much allied with large industry in Germany, not against it. It is that alliance with big business and their rapant nationalism, both characteristic of the right in the 1930s, that earned them a label as right wing. Also their strong opposition to the left (cf. Spanish Civil War).

Yes, conservatives today have different views of the world than conservatives did in the 1930s, and a libertarian and Nazi are at least as far apart as an anarchist and a communist. Still, if you think all conservatives in the world are libertarians, I'd recommend a visit to Europe, South America or South Africa.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Buckley, of course, has often described himself as a liberal - in the original, 19th century use of the term.

First, not much socialist about them - they very much allied with large industry in Germany, not against it. It is that alliance with big business and their rapant nationalism, both characteristic of the right in the 1930s, that earned them a label as right wing. Also their strong opposition to the left (cf. Spanish Civil War).

Yes, conservatives today have different views of the world than conservatives did in the 1930s, and a libertarian and Nazi are at least as far apart as an anarchist and a communist. Still, if you think all conservatives in the world are libertarians, I'd recommend a visit to Europe, South America or South Africa.

Which more than anything shows that the labels have been skewed to the point of meaninglessness. As for the Spanish Civil War, that was ultimately Russian-centric nationalism cloaked in Soviet Internationalsim for the most part on the left. So I don't really see that "nationalism" angle distinguishing any philosophy from another; rather, it only distinguishes the propoganda they sold to the masses.

And big business in cahoots with the G? How different is that from the G being the big business? Not the Right of the ancients or the moderns by any measure.

Hello

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Condi Campaigning

People do all kinds of things to save their jobs.

But somehow, we aren't seeing Colin Powell on the hustings. Even though he is arguably in a more political position.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
P.S. I understand your bitterness, but losing your self in mind-blowing casual sex is not the answer.

I know you don't post on the FB, but I think you should go make this your debut. Might liven things up a bit.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
It's going to be mighty quiet around here again, then.

(ETA: Upon reflection, a better answer might have been -

Is Taxwonk gone? Can I take the vest off now?)

Taxwonk has been peaceful. Snarky, but peaceful.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Agreed that the far left and far right are essentially mirror images of each other in some ways. I'm just questioning how the convention came to depict them at the far right of the spectrum. Except for Mussolini getting the trains to run on time, those people share nothing with people like Buckley. Take out the hatred and elbow-room stuff, and you have run-of-the-mill socialism run amok.

I disagree.

I think Fascism is depicted as "on the right" or, rather, "way off to the right" because it generally includes as a matter of core philosophy strong elements of jingoistic nationalism and xenophobia. Its economic policies, etc. were also infused with a corporatist/statist mix of the state supporting large industry.

Fascism has nothing of the class-based "universal brotherhood of man" model essential to socialist and communist theory. It also generally doesn't centralize and redistribute property.

S_A_M

[dtb]

Originally posted by bilmore
[Club]'s what I used to be, [...]

he said modestly.

[Replaced_Texan]

From Kos

Lake Snell Perry & Associates (D) for Private Client. 10/10-11. MoE 4.9%. (No trend lines).

• DeLay (R) 47
  Morrison (D) 33

Among the findings:

• DeLay has high negatives. 17% view him very favorably, 25% view him very unfavorably.
  
• Morrison's name ID is at 50 percent, which clearly has to improve in the next couple of weeks. (RT note: There's another Morrison running as a libertarian. I hope the voters dont' get them confused.)
  
• 20% remain undecided, even when asked which way they lean.
  
• While the poll pegs DeLay's support at 47%, only 33% say they support him strongly. 10% say they are not-so strongly for him, and 4% are undecided but lean toward DeLay. Even tallying up all his support, strong and weak, he's still under 50 percent.
  
• The ethics violations are accumulating voter sentiment against DeLay, and voters are looking for an alternative. More than a third (34%) of voters say they're less likely to vote for DeLay because of the ethics violations, and only half of those are currently with Morrison