Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
LAUSD baby. I'm counting the ratio by the number of students in each of my classes.

If you had 35 kids in your classes, then the student to teacher ration in your school was on the order of 26 to 1. You count all of the students and all of the teachers. Between small special ed classes, teachers getting breaks during some periods, and things such as art teachers, the average class size is substantially higher than the student to teacher ratio.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I'm waiting for someone to come up with an example, but the only ones I could think of were Catholic schools, and it's clear they have some real advantages for cost containment and a fair bit of subsidization.

Are there schools for other religions or denominations that come in with the same tuition levels while paying teachers full scale? I know the Quaker schools around here are more expensive, but have not priced the Jewish schools and don't know of any protestant ones other than the Quakers.

I think the Canadian system has a large Catholic system that exists side-by-side with the public schools and competes for lay teachers. I'd have to defer to gwinky or someone else with greater knowledge of the details, but it could be a place to start.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I'm waiting for someone to come up with an example, but the only ones I could think of were Catholic schools, and it's clear they have some real advantages for cost containment and a fair bit of subsidization.

Non-premium private schools I suspect have tuitions more in line with public schools.

Comparing the average public school with Exeter, Andover, or your other choice of premier private school isn't quite right. Go compare it to the expenditures at, e.g., New Trier (IL), Newton (MA), or other top public schools in wealthy communities. A better comparison might be some of the southern states in which private schools were founded for whites refusing to get bused (or have others bused in). Lower quality and lower budgets made affordable for rednecks.

Moreover, the list price at private schools is not necessarily what everyone pays. Just like in public schools--the folks with the nice houses in effect pay a lot more for the school.

As GGG notes, though, you're paying for something extra as well, so it's also a false comparison there. Not saying they're cheaper, but I don't think one can compare efficiency based solely on expenditures.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
For example, his number for teacher salaries isn't that far off from actual teacher salaries (Cal. avgs about $55,000) because he used an average for CSU that includes lots of relatively low paid faculty at fourth rate schools - he was just looking for the puffery of saying he was paying them like college professors.

Without going back and looking, I would guess that he also decided not to include benefits, which would add about 32% even to this artificially deflated figure.

I guess benefits are either waste, fraud, or abuse. Right?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I think the Canadian system has a large Catholic system that exists side-by-side with the public schools and competes for lay teachers. I'd have to defer to gwinky or someone else with greater knowledge of the details, but it could be a place to start.

Remember, canadians are pretty dumb in general.

Catholic schools take advantage of the ability to turn down kids. Many have no special ed and certainly not the state mandated special ed that exists in public schools. This lowers their costs.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Watchtower
I think these are people who [are opposed to immigration] are either expressing their inner xenophobe or who are fighting economic battles of the last century instead of this one.

Nicely put.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Without going back and looking, I would guess that he also decided not to include benefits, which would add about 32% even to this artificially deflated figure.

I guess benefits are either waste, fraud, or abuse. Right?

He threw in 24% for benefits. That gets you social security (7.65%); about 10% for a health plan (which means its a contributory plan); and about 6% to cover unemployment, reimbursements, and whatever other benefits may exist. It certainly doesn't include the kind of pension benefit that most teachers get.

Every number he uses is pulled out of thin air. It's all easy if you assume away reality.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
He threw in 24% for benefits. That gets you social security (7.65%); about 10% for a health plan (which means its a contributory plan); and about 6% to cover unemployment, reimbursements, and whatever other benefits may exist. It certainly doesn't include the kind of pension benefit that most teachers get.

Every number he uses is pulled out of thin air. It's all easy if you assume away reality.

Thanks for the correction. Pension benefits are waste. (Or are they fraud? I get confused -- I'm a product of the public school system, after all.)

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Moreover, the list price at private schools is not necessarily what everyone pays. Just like in public schools--the folks with the nice houses in effect pay a lot more for the school.

According to the development "please give us money" letters, the Annual Fund at my high school covers about 9% of the budget. I believe that the endowment covers quite a bit more. The current capital campaign is looking to raise about $45 million to strenghten the endowment, renovate several buildings, and beef up annual giving. I'm certain that isn't going to be a problem.

The congregation donations to the parish helped support the catholic school I went to from first to eighth grade, though there were the occassional capital campaigns, and I'm pretty sure that the annual Bazaar kept the school running for six months.

Tuition was significantly greater at the high school than the catholic school. Teacher's salaries were higher at the high school than the catholic school. Friends from high school got better standardized test scores and into better schools than from jr. high, who went on to catholic high schools or public school. Except the kids that went on to the Jesuit school. They did very well.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Remember, canadians are pretty dumb in general.

With all due respect, Hank, I submit that your viewpoint is distorted by the fact that most of the Canadians you know reside in Windsor. The smarter ones have moved away to anyplace where they don't have to look across a river and see Detroit.

Catholic schools take advantage of the ability to turn down kids. Many have no special ed and certainly not the state mandated special ed that exists in public schools. This lowers their costs.

Are you saying this applies to the Canadian Catholic system? Just curious.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
It certainly doesn't include the kind of pension benefit that most teachers get.

FWIW, the Texas Teacher's Retirement Fund is a mandatory 6 percent of annual salary, vesting after five years.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
According to the development "please give us money" letters, the Annual Fund at my high school covers about 9% of the budget. I believe that the endowment covers quite a bit more. The current capital campaign is looking to raise about $45 million to strenghten the endowment, renovate several buildings, and beef up annual giving. I'm certain that isn't going to be a problem.

The congregation donations to the parish helped support the catholic school I went to from first to eighth grade, though there were the occassional capital campaigns, and I'm pretty sure that the annual Bazaar kept the school running for six months.

Tuition was significantly greater at the high school than the catholic school. Teacher's salaries were higher at the high school than the catholic school. Friends from high school got better standardized test scores and into better schools than from jr. high, who went on to catholic high schools or public school. Except the kids that went on to the Jesuit school. They did very well.

Tell us about your uniforms...

Oops, wrong board.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

Tuition was significantly greater at the high school than the catholic school. Teacher's salaries were higher at the high school than the catholic school. Friends from high school got better standardized test scores and into better schools than from jr. high, who went on to catholic high schools or public school. Except the kids that went on to the Jesuit school. They did very well.

I don't quite understand - is the high school you are referring to the Catholic High School or another private high school? Is the tuition and salary comparison here Catholic High to Catholic grammar and middle, or is it Private High to Catholic High?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I don't quite understand - is the high school you are referring to the Catholic High School or another private high school? Is the tuition and salary comparison here Catholic High to Catholic grammar and middle, or is it Private High to Catholic High?

High school was a private school that liked to consider itself on par with Andover, Exeter, etc.

Tuition/salary comparisions were anecdotal based off of catholic parochial school for initial 8 years and then private school for final four.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Are you saying this applies to the Canadian Catholic system? Just curious.

you may have a point. Canada has the state medical insurance and no one pays anything for it. It's all free!

You'll have to ask GGG for details,