It's all about me

[Pretty Little Flower]

Are they really in? Is it O.K. to wear a hat if you are younger than 50, and not Amish? Is this just another bit of dubious fashion advice from the NYT?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/17/fa...RES.html?8hpib

[Alex_de_Large]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Are they really in? Is it O.K. to wear a hat if you are younger than 50, and not Amish? Is this just another bit of dubious fashion advice from the NYT?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/17/fa...RES.html?8hpib

Never trust a man named Rod from Kansas withthe dream of becoming "a kind of contemporary Charles James..."

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I can't argue with someone who uses Michael Phelps to make a point about the dedication necessary to be a top ice dancer.

I get your point, and Hank's. I don't think ice dancing is equivalent to women's gymnastics. Are we going to talk about the fact that Bonnie Blair was on skates at two when we discuss men's curling? My point was that men's gymnastics is no doubt intense and rigorous. I dispute merely that it requires the same single-mindedness at age seven as is required of future female Olympians.

Sidd's point (which he reiterates further down) is that women's gymnastics is not singular in this requirement. I think this is partially correct. Women's gymnastics, followed closely by women's ice skating, are particularly extreme examples in the US. It's not that people in other sports work out less, or with less single-mindedness, but they are, for whatever reason, much less likely to up and move across the country at age 8 to be near the right coach.

Putting those two examples aside, however, and there are multitudes of sports where people start training at a young age, even without a chance at the Olympics. I started swimming at age 5. The only thing that differentiated me from Michael Phelps was his natural talent. I worked out first an hour a day, then two (by the time I was 9), then four (high school, except for the years I played basketball, when I split the workout between the two, which cost me on the swimming side). I was never close to Phelps caliber. Hell, I was never really close to getting to compete on the national level. I gave up baseball to swim (but tried it). I gave up soccer to swim (but tried it). I gave up basketball to swim (but acknowledge that basketball was much better for getting the chicks, which is probably why I kept it up as long as I did).

I was working out with people almost on Phelps's level (at least they competed nationally); we managed to live what we considered normal lives. Full school schedules, homework, going out on Friday nights, etc. I would say that we worked out about the same amount of time per day as the football players, and no one would accuse them of failing to lead full social lives.

Athletics consume a huge amount of time out of the lives of a large portion of American youth. And that's okay. Because kids who don't spend four hours a day in the water (or four hours in the band hall, or the journalism office, or the debate room, or some combination thereof) spend those four hours in front of the TV.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Sidd's point (which he reiterates further down) is that women's gymnastics is not singular in this requirement. I think this is partially correct. Women's gymnastics, followed closely by women's ice skating, are particularly extreme examples in the US. It's not that people in other sports work out less, or with less single-mindedness, but they are, for whatever reason, much less likely to up and move across the country at age 8 to be near the right coach.

Putting those two examples aside, however, and there are multitudes of sports where people start training at a young age, even without a chance at the Olympics. I started swimming at age 5. The only thing that differentiated me from Michael Phelps was his natural talent. I worked out first an hour a day, then two (by the time I was 9), then four (high school, except for the years I played basketball, when I split the workout between the two, which cost me on the swimming side). I was never close to Phelps caliber. Hell, I was never really close to getting to compete on the national level. I gave up baseball to swim (but tried it). I gave up soccer to swim (but tried it). I gave up basketball to swim (but acknowledge that basketball was much better for getting the chicks, which is probably why I kept it up as long as I did).

I was working out with people almost on Phelps's level (at least they competed nationally); we managed to live what we considered normal lives. Full school schedules, homework, going out on Friday nights, etc. I would say that we worked out about the same amount of time per day as the football players, and no one would accuse them of failing to lead full social lives.

Athletics consume a huge amount of time out of the lives of a large portion of American youth. And that's okay. Because kids who don't spend four hours a day in the water (or four hours in the band hall, or the journalism office, or the debate room, or some combination thereof) spend those four hours in front of the TV.

Why is it Sidd's point? I am so frequently slighted.

the Hamm's started gymnastics at 6. you cannot do the stuff they did last night w/o training forever.



The gymnastics/skating fever probably hits far more girls than boys. That is, there are alot of girls I've known who wanted to be a gymnist or skater and practiced every day. None made it.

There are far fewer boys caught up in it, and perhaps this is the point Atticus should have made. If you consider the harm of losing your childhood to practice for the chance of being in the Olympics*, the harm occurs to far more girls than boys. However, every young man you saw last night lost a good chunk of his childhood to the sport.

*and to the one guy I know, the opportunity to fall every 4 years on Int'l TV.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Are they really in? Is it O.K. to wear a hat if you are younger than 50, and not Amish? Is this just another bit of dubious fashion advice from the NYT?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/17/fa...RES.html?8hpib

Woo hoo! I beat a fashion trend. I wore a hat to a baby shower three whole days before this article came out. The hat was quite a hit.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by baltassoc


I was working out with people almost on Phelps's level (at least they competed nationally); we managed to live what we considered normal lives. Full school schedules, homework, going out on Friday nights, etc. I would say that we worked out about the same amount of time per day as the football players, and no one would accuse them of failing to lead full social lives.

Again. 2.

I know a a current Olympic swimmer. Yeah she swam year round in HS, but she didn't put in any more time in the pool than the other girls during the season. She is/was well-rounded and fully social. Hell, she even got drunk every once in awhile in HS.

And she could probably kick the shit out of me.

ETA: One more thing: Phelps could easily come back in 2008 and try for 8 golds again (he's only 19). What's the record for total medals? Carl Lewis has to have a ton.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Why is it Sidd's point? I am so frequently slighted.

because you're an assjack

the Hamm's started gymnastics at 6. you cannot do the stuff they did last night w/o training forever.
...
However, every young man you saw last night lost a good chunk of his childhood to the sport.

If you are refering specifically to gymnastics, perhaps, but otherwise I dispute that the time spent on the sport was "lost."

Even for the thousands of people who didn't make the Olympic teams, the time wasn't lost (excepting, perhaps, the atheletes who move into permenant camps like gymnasts). Sports training is important for establishing healthy habits, as well as good* life skills.

*"good" in the traditional American sense: willing to put in long hours for delayed gratification, playing through the pain, being a "team player."

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Are they really in? Is it O.K. to wear a hat if you are younger than 50, and not Amish? Is this just another bit of dubious fashion advice from the NYT?

Dubious fashion advice from the NYT? Does that mean my untucked shirts are not a sign of my hipness, but simply means that I am a slob?

Apropos of nothing, I thought of you the other day -- I was listening to the local hipster alt-country radio station the other day and heard a song called "Bloomington" by the Old 97s. I kept waiting for them to sing a line about spinning hippie chicks, but they didn't.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski


There are far fewer boys caught up in it, and perhaps this is the point Atticus should have made. If you consider the harm of losing your childhood to practice for the chance of being in the Olympics*, the harm occurs to far more girls than boys. However, every young man you saw last night lost a good chunk of his childhood to the sport.

Todd Marinovich anyone?

It's not like complete devotion to sports as children hasn't led to plenty of wasted lives, in a whole host of sports.

Ask the 97% of high school hoops players who don't play in college, or the 99.97% of high school hoops players who don't make it to the pros. Sure, some of them sat at the end of the bench next to Hank, but some of them spend hours on the playground or in the gym, figuring it's the ticket. It's not.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski


The gymnastics/skating fever probably hits far more girls than boys. That is, there are alot of girls I've known who wanted to be a gymnist or skater and practiced every day. None made it.

I took my first ballet class when I was 3 years old. I went on pointe at age 12. I continued to dance very seriously all the way through college.

Ballet wasn't something my parents forced on me. It was something I wanted to do, and if my parents had suggested I might try something else because I wasn't going to make it professionally as a dancer, I would have had one hell of a hissy fit.

Dancing definitely fucked with my body image. But it also taught me about repetition, perfection, self-confidence, discipline. If my daughter told me she wanted to dance, I'd be willing to drive her to dance classes as many days a week as she wanted to go.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Todd Marinovich anyone?

It's not like complete devotion to sports as children hasn't led to plenty of wasted lives, in a whole host of sports.

Ask the 97% of high school hoops players who don't play in college, or the 99.97% of high school hoops players who don't make it to the pros. Sure, some of them sat at the end of the bench next to Hank, but some of them spend hours on the playground or in the gym, figuring it's the ticket. It's not.

This is a good point, and is indeed tragic. I can personally recall several examples of friends who fell into this trap, mostly in football and basketball. If they're spending the time because they think it's the ticket, then the time truly is "lost."*

OTOH, I can't think of any of my fellow swimmers who thought their four hours a day was leading toward a meal ticket down the line (beyond - perhaps - hoping for a college scholarship). I would doubt that even Phelps had this thought, at least up until about 6 months ago.

*Or is it? We tend to assume these kids would have been better served by hitting the books (which is undoubtably true), but if they didn't spend the time on the court, would they be spending it with pencils in their hands, or XBox controllers? At least they keep in shape, learn how to work as part of a team, and learn that life does not come with a reset button.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I took my first ballet class when I was 3 years old. I went on pointe at age 12. I continued to dance very seriously all the way through college.

Ballet wasn't something my parents forced on me. It was something I wanted to do, and if my parents had suggested I might try something else because I wasn't going to make it professionally as a dancer, I would have had one hell of a hissy fit.

Dancing definitely fucked with my body image. But it also taught me about repetition, perfection, self-confidence, discipline. If my daughter told me she wanted to dance, I'd be willing to drive her to dance classes as many days a week as she wanted to go.

I was simply responding to AG; but I am glad that I was the catalyst for baltass to make his first point that a non-geek could understand. Sports are great. for girls team sports are best but all sports are great.

As to your dancing, it didn't take up your whole life, did it? My daughter had school friends when she was 6-10 that could never do anything outside school because one went to gymnastics and one went to the ice rink- almost every day, with meets on most weekends.

Balt is right that playing sports for hours is arguably better than playing video. A truism doesn't mean that losing your ability to hang and play as a kid didn't take something away.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's not like complete devotion to sports as children hasn't led to plenty of wasted lives, in a whole host of sports.

Aw, come on. For a long period of time, I spent a minimum of four hours per day, five days per week, on my own particular forms of athletic endeavors.

Wasted time? Hardly. Those hours were a far, far better use of my time then most other available choices at that age, yielded valuable life-long benefits, gave me far more focus than I might otherwise have had, trained me in the philosophy of working hard for what I want, and frequently led to sex with cheerleaders.

The only way all of that qualifies as "wasted time" would be to count the sports-related party scene. Wasted time, indeed.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by bilmore


Wasted time?

I said wasted lives.

The jury's still out on that one.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by bilmore
Aw, come on. For a long period of time, I spent a minimum of four hours per day, five days per week, on my own particular forms of athletic endeavors.

Wasted time? Hardly. Those hours were a far, far better use of my time then most other available choices at that age, yielded valuable life-long benefits, gave me far more focus than I might otherwise have had, trained me in the philosophy of working hard for what I want, and frequently led to sex with cheerleaders.

The only way all of that qualifies as "wasted time" would be to count the sports-related party scene. Wasted time, indeed.

other than the sex w/cheerleaders part, you just described SS's masturbation habits 12-18 years of age.