Happy Birthday, Preston Michael Spears Federline and other Certain Special Someones!

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I like rediscovering items in my sweater/cooler weather drawer.

Like the cashmere cable-knit vibrator?

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I need to tell you. One of the very best things about Autumn? Candy apples. I am a happy girl. One of the worst things? Chapped lips. Ouch.

One of the best things: sleeping with the windows open and an extra blanket on the bed.

One of the worst things: still wearing summer maternity clothes -- linen pants, no less -- in mid-October. I envy all women who can wear jeans right now. (Although bringing the baby home from the hospital dressed like a little pumpkin will make up for it.)

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I find the name of the Houston NFL team, but more because it's embarrassing to be associated with the team.

Go Astros!

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
disengage Seb.

Call it whatever, you wouldn't see a team called the "insert any black or asian handle." This is true regardless of whether it were an insulting name or a "proud" name.

What drives me nuts is that most of the kids out picketing the Noles are white suburban kids who don't even understand the gripe they're making. It also strikes me as kind of odd that only groups that have been historically victimized get to air the gripes. Why can't I raise a protest against Notre Dame? Doesn't their mascot paint Irish as dim brawlers in the same way the Seminoles' paints Indians as warriors? Yet nobody chides ND. Why is that? Is it because the Irish aren't as easy a group to get behind? Are we that unsexy a cause for the Berkeley Crowd? We were victimized... "Irish need not apply."

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What drives me nuts is that most of the kids out picketing the Noles are white suburban kids who don't even understand the gripe they're making. It also strikes me as kind of odd that only groups that have been historically victimized get to air the gripes. Why can't I raise a protest against Notre Dame? Doesn't their mascot paint Irish as dim brawlers in the same way the Seminoles' paints Indians as warriors? Yet nobody chides ND. Why is that? Is it because the Irish aren't as easy a group to get behind? Are we that unsexy a cause for the Berkeley Crowd? We were victimized... "Irish need not apply."

They changed it from "Drunken" to "Fighting," though I really don't see much of a difference.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't see ethnic stereotyping in mascots as racist. The distincyion is subtle, but important.

Racism, as I understand it, is the classic "blacks should be separate" or "whites are more advanced than blacks, etc..." attitudes. It is an offshoot of slavery and the prevailing attitudes that made slavery acceptable in its time. Nobody is saying that Native Americans are less human than anyone else when they use the Seminole mascot. In fact, having read about what warriors, the Seminoles were (fucking up all sorts of Union Troops sent to kill them), its kind of a nod to state heritage, and a bit of a compliment. I mean, here's a school of drunk white kids who have an Indian as their mascot. But that's sort of an aside. My real point is that racism shouldn't be confused with ethnic insensitivity. I think the black/white base of racism is unique, and using the term "racism" to cover things like bad choice of mascots degrades the very specific and ongoing issue of racism that still exists today. I guess, simply put, racism to me is a black/white thing.

I get ticked when I hear people refer to anything as a "new racism" or a "modern Holocaust." I just don't think the two can be used as analogies to ethnic insensitivity. Perhaps I'm being too narrow in my definitions... You could say its nothing more than a semantic objection on my part - that "ethnic insensitivity" and "racism" are interchangeable. But I don't think so.

Although I see where you're trying to go with this post, I don't think it makes much sense at all.

I don't understand where you get the idea that racism only exists as a "black/white thing." Asians were interned. Native Americans were slaughtered and removed from their land. Blacks were enslaved. All of these things were done, at least in (large) part, because of the colors of the victims' skin and the attitudes of whites towards them. One can argue that slavery is different, as an institution than these other problems, but that doesn't somehow change the definition of racism as it is applied to people who aren't black. And I'm not going to address "new racism" or "moderen Holocaust" because I don't really know how you are applying either here. To me, racism is racism.

This idea that you can be ethnically insensitive without looking at the root of such insensitivity is bullshit. The type of attitude that is behind someone saying, "Injuns are no good, lazy drunks (and I ain't gonna hire one, my daughter ain't gonna date one, etc. -- and I believe this is the type of "real" racism of which you speak)," is the same as, or is the foundation for, the attitude where one finds it okay to turn a race of people into a mascot for one's amusement.

The fact is, when you look at people that way, you perpetuate stereotypes and attitudes towards a group who is fighting hard to be recognized as people and not some image that has been thrust upon them by those in power. If you don't want to be viewed as some kind of savage, being labeled a "Redskin" and caricatured to the point of being reduced to a mascot of some fucking football team, ain't gonna help.

I guess my point is, a society that can tolerate something like that (over the objection of the very people being caricatured) is the type of society that will tolerate the many more tangible (for lack of a better word) types of racism towards Native Americans (among others).

If you watched the old Looney Tunes when you were a kid, like me, you were probably bombarded with savage or sambo images of blacks. You can argue that they're harmless because "they're just cartoons, after all." Or you can look deeper and ask yourself how that affects people (white, black, hispanic, whatever). I don't see a difference between that and the "Me scalp 'em, and then smoke peace pipe" mindset of "the drunken white kids" running around in full Native American dress at these games. And if you think that any (there are exceptions to everything, of course) of the fans think of it as a "nod to state heritage," then we shouldn't even be arguing.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What drives me nuts is that most of the kids out picketing the Noles are white suburban kids who don't even understand the gripe they're making. It also strikes me as kind of odd that only groups that have been historically victimized get to air the gripes. Why can't I raise a protest against Notre Dame? Doesn't their mascot paint Irish as dim brawlers in the same way the Seminoles' paints Indians as warriors? Yet nobody chides ND. Why is that? Is it because the Irish aren't as easy a group to get behind? Are we that unsexy a cause for the Berkeley Crowd? We were victimized... "Irish need not apply."

I can't argue with this type of logic.

TM

[sunnybunny]

so i don't have to actually read the text to figure out if I want to read something or not.

Thanks

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by sunnybunny
so i don't have to actually read the text to figure out if I want to read something or not.

Thanks

No.

TM

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
No.

TM

I can't argue with this type of logic.

[sunnybunny]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
No.

TM

I think you have a crush on me.

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Go Astros!

I hope the Astros make it to the series, too. But lest we forget:

Six outs away from the World Series, up 7-2, with Nolan Ryan on the mound and the 16 inning game .

[Sparklehorse]

Originally posted by sunnybunny
I think you have a crush on me.

No doubt it's because he heard you're dating a black slam piece. You know, once you go...

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What drives me nuts is that most of the kids out picketing the Noles are white suburban kids who don't even understand the gripe they're making. It also strikes me as kind of odd that only groups that have been historically victimized get to air the gripes. Why can't I raise a protest against Notre Dame? Doesn't their mascot paint Irish as dim brawlers in the same way the Seminoles' paints Indians as warriors? Yet nobody chides ND. Why is that? Is it because the Irish aren't as easy a group to get behind? Are we that unsexy a cause for the Berkeley Crowd? We were victimized... "Irish need not apply."

Because a considerable number of people associated with Notre Dame are actually Irish, or decendents of the Irish. Because ND goes over and plays a football game in Ireland every couple of years and sells out Croke Park (hell, they're allowed to play in Croke Park, which is otherwise allowed only to host traditional Irish sports - rugby and soccer are not permitted). Because ND has a giagantic Irish Studies program dedicated to studying both the history and culture of Irland on the one side and studying methods of resolving the continuing political strife in the country (in a serious way, not in a give the IRA arms kind of way).

I'm not seeing that connection at Florida State.

ETA: I can't believe I just defended fucking Notre Dame.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
I hope the Astros make it to the series, too. But lest we forget:

Six outs away from the World Series, up 7-2, with Nolan Ryan on the mound and the 16 inning game .

Uncool, man. Totally uncool.