Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Rarely has a movie glorified gratuitious and graphic violence in the name of a religion as this one.

I take it you don't watch Arabic television/movies.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
Yeah, and that Shakespeare guy was a dud. If you want truly good wordcrafting, you need to watch reality TV.

To bee or not to bee? That is the question.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
You presumably put this here for a point, and my question really goes to the heart of your point, so you're going to call it parsing. I understand. Do you not ever question things put out if they're by the right (excuse me, left) people? I know Drum said this, so it must represent unbiased and pure-motivated thought, but his statement - the phrasing - just seems disingenuous in the face of the chronology of the test result announcements.

Drum doesn't say it. He quotes directly from the Financial Times.

(a) The sequence Bilmore put forth is precisely what the (former) Spanish government says happened (in the document which Drum links to -- so he's hardly hiding it).

EXCEPT -- that, the Spanish government also apparently did not correct itself when the explosives were correctly identified, _and_ apparently DID say that the new kind of explosive was also frequently used by ETA -- which is the part that the FT (not Drum) reported that the German intel. service sez was untrue.

(b) None of this explains why the PRIME MINISTER of the country was (admittedly) personally phoning editorial boards and media sources to tell them that the government was _certain_ ETA was behind the attack _and_ that they should run that story.

Why would he care so much about that the day before an election?

Aznar made these calls at a time when conflicting (and correct) information was percolating and circulating at least in the lower ranks of his government. So, whether or not "Aznar lied", it seems to me that he was most assuredly trying to turn a terrorist attack to his political advantage in the immediate aftermath, and was badly burned.

S_A_M


[edited -- typos]

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
You presumably put this here for a point, and my question really goes to the heart of your point, so you're going to call it parsing. I understand. Do you not ever question things put out if they're by the right (excuse me, left) people? I know Drum said this, so it must represent unbiased and pure-motivated thought, but his statement - the phrasing - just seems disingenuous in the face of the chronology of the test result announcements.

I should have bowed to either your superior parsing or to your superior familiarity with the chronology of the test result announcements. I don't know what Spanish authorities said when about which explosives were used in the Madrid bombings and historically by ETA. Based solely on the FT article, it sounds to me like Spanish authorities were misleading people to win the impending elections. You seem inclined to think that the whole FT article is built around an effort to mislead readers. If this is because you know more about these events than the FT reporter, I'm impressed. If you reached that conclusion based solely on a close reading of the story -- well, that's impressive parsing.

The quote was from the FT article, by the way -- I linked to Drum because that's where I found it. Does that change your reading of it?

edited for clarification

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
So, to that extent, yeah, Blix is right that the initial attack on the bees' nest made it worse, but it was a temporary worsening, and it paid off with the end of the bees. To argue that I should have left the nest there because the bees would be pissed as they died out is . . . well . . . dumb.

The difference between your bees nest and the war on terror is that when you made the bees mad, they created a problem in your backyard. The war on terror has kept the terrorist activity out of the US thus far.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Me
I take it you don't watch Arabic television/movies.

ÇÐåÈ

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
The difference between your bees nest and the war on terror is that when you made the bees mad, they created a problem in your backyard. The war on terror has kept the terrorist activity out of the US thus far.

(Psst -- ixnay on the etaphormay. Tinkering with it will make our little lesson break down.)

Sure, you're apparently saying that nest is probably in a tree a neighbor's yard, not our own.

But commie pinko lefties with poor oral and reading comprehension skills would probably say that really, the bee's nest was next door in Tree 1, so to solve it we cut down Tree 2 and planted a new sapling. Why? Well, lots of reasons -- including that the nest from Tree 1 was migrating to Tree 2, and Tree 2 was closer to OUR backyard, and ....

Oh, hell. Never mind. See what I mean?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The fact is, the rest of the world cries crocodile tears for our people while they reap the benefits of our good will.

Although I don't think the rest of the world treats us fairly, I wouldn't go so far as that. I think many people throughout the world geniunely grieved with us for those killed on 9/11. However, I think there is quite a bit of jealousy because of the economic and political success of America. So while they may have felt sympathy for us, that didn't temper their jealousy.

They also feel that because we are so successful that we have a responsibility to share that with the rest of the world. The part that angers me is that we in fact do share our wealth with the rest of the world and ask for little back in return. And even then, we don't get what little we ask for in return with few exceptions (UK, australia and a few others).

By and large, the rest of the world is just plain old jealous of us.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Gattigap
(Psst -- ixnay on the etaphormay. Tinkering with it will make our little lesson break down.)

Sure, you're apparently saying that nest is probably in a tree a neighbor's yard, not our own.

But commie pinko lefties with poor oral and reading comprehension skills would probably say that really, the bee's nest was next door in Tree 1, so to solve it we cut down Tree 2 and planted a new sapling. Why? Well, lots of reasons -- including that the nest from Tree 1 was migrating to Tree 2, and Tree 2 was closer to OUR backyard, and ....

Oh, hell. Never mind. See what I mean?

Isn't it funny
How a bee likes honey?
Buzz, buzz, buzz,
I wonder why he does.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Club, you think it was a good idea to invade Iraq to "drain the swamp" -- to make it into a democracy to promote political change in the Middle East and thereby remove the conditions that foster terrorism.

Actually, SH drained the swamp, which devastated the Marsh Arabs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3011447.stm

[notcasesensitive]

A much better analogy for those wishing to espouse this point of view would be closet cleaning. Maybe I know this only because I am a girl (tee hee hee) or maybe it is on my mind more because I'm starting to pack my shit up for a move, but you know how your closet gets kind of messy and disorganized and then one day you can't find that great halter top that accentuates your bustline just so, so you decide to clean that mess up once and for all. But the problem is that in order to clean it up properly, you have to pull all the improperly folded clothes out, and in the process you discover stuff pushed to the back that you haven't worn for like 5 years (and you didn't even like that much then), so you pull that stuff out too and the next thing you know, your entire room is a mess and you're wishing that you never started this project in the first place. But eventually (after some procrastination and maybe even a break or two to watch some reality tv), the closet is organized and everything is in its place.

I think that is what bilmore was trying to say (esp. the reality tv part). Note: this example was for the benefit of those on the board tired of the bee/backyard scenario and does not reflect any views on the Iraq war of the writer hereof.

Edit - for example Iraq could either be those extra clothes that we threw out along the way and therefore the closet ended up in better shape or (I'm sorry bilmore) Iraq could be the reality tv show we watched while we were procrastinating.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
The part that angers me is that we in fact do share our wealth with the rest of the world and ask for little back in return. And even then, we don't get what little we ask for in return with few exceptions (UK, australia and a few others).

Cite, please. We devote a smaller percentage of our GDP to foreign aid than almost every other industrialized country.

"At the moment, the United States is the world’s second-largest foreign aid donor in absolute terms after Japan, but ranks 22 out of 22 major industrial nations when assistance is measured as a percentage of GDP." Link.

[Nut Case, Sensitive]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
A much better analogy for those wishing to espouse this point of view would be closet cleaning. Maybe I know this only because I am a girl (tee hee hee) or maybe it is on my mind more because I'm starting to pack my shit up for a move, but you know how your closet gets kind of messy and disorganized and then one day you can't find that great halter top that accentuates your bustline just so, so you decide to clean that mess up once and for all. But the problem is that in order to clean it up properly, you have to pull all the improperly folded clothes out, and in the process you discover stuff pushed to the back that you haven't worn for like 5 years (and you didn't even like that much then), so you pull that stuff out too and the next thing you know, your entire room is a mess and you're wishing that you never started this project in the first place. But eventually (after some procrastination and maybe even a break or two to watch some reality tv), the closet is organized and everything is in its place.

I think that is what bilmore was trying to say (esp. the reality tv part). Note: this example was for the benefit of those on the board tired of the bee/backyard scenario and does not reflect any views on the Iraq war of the writer hereof.

Edit - for example Iraq could either be those extra clothes that we threw out along the way and therefore the closet ended up in better shape or (I'm sorry bilmore) Iraq could be the reality tv show we watched while we were procrastinating.

Or like when you can't find your nuts.

You know they're around somewhere, unless someone else came along and dug them, and if they did ...

Oh, nuts!

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
A much better analogy for those wishing to espouse this point of view would be closet cleaning. Maybe I know this only because I am a girl (tee hee hee) or maybe it is on my mind more because I'm starting to pack my shit up for a move, but you know how your closet gets kind of messy and disorganized and then one day you can't find that great halter top that accentuates your bustline just so, so you decide to clean that mess up once and for all. But the problem is that in order to clean it up properly, you have to pull all the improperly folded clothes out, and in the process you discover stuff pushed to the back that you haven't worn for like 5 years (and you didn't even like that much then), so you pull that stuff out too and the next thing you know, your entire room is a mess and you're wishing that you never started this project in the first place. But eventually (after some procrastination and maybe even a break or two to watch some reality tv), the closet is organized and everything is in its place.

I think that is what bilmore was trying to say (esp. the reality tv part). Note: this example was for the benefit of those on the board tired of the bee/backyard scenario and does not reflect any views on the Iraq war of the writer hereof.

Edit - for example Iraq could either be those extra clothes that we threw out along the way and therefore the closet ended up in better shape or (I'm sorry bilmore) Iraq could be the reality tv show we watched while we were procrastinating.

Well, OK, but unless we can find a more concise and elegant way to put it, I'm afraid we'll never get this version into Bilmore's Book of Virtues.

Courage, Perseverance, and Faith are only tangentially referenced in your treatment -- and the reality TV bit actually encourages Sloth, which makes the odds of inclusion something of a longshot.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Courage, Perseverance, and Faith are only tangentially referenced in your treatment -- and the reality TV bit actually encourages Sloth, which makes the odds of inclusion something of a longshot.

Well, yeah but what is while she procrastinates, she find a webpage with a shot of a celeb's boob, but get this, the page has an entire series of faked celeb's with "pearl necklaces." What do you think? Then, for extra, there is a whole page called "SuperModels with Meat." Tell me that dog won't run. Sure, it's a cable story now- but still.