Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me
I am surprised that you don't also fault Bilmore for not building a coalition of his neighbors and getting their consent before he got rid of the bee's nest.

Turns out my neighbors were secretly helping the bees hide the nest in exchange for the honey.

(ETA - Nest? Hive? Must be Friday.)

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bilmore
Turns out my neighbors were secretly helping the bees hide the nest in exchange for the honey.

(ETA - Nest? Hive? Must be Friday.)

Well, from what I've been told, the hive wasn't even on your property, but in the woods on the other side of a lake.

[Not Me]

It is commercial speech, so maybe that is a difference. Just curious as to what you think.

http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/1110/3-...000005_09.html

Missouri Removing Pornography Billboards

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - Having just learned to read, 5-year-old Taylor Ray was naturally curious about the billboard in plain view from his parents' vehicle along Interstate 70.

"Dad, what is `XXX'?" Jim Ray recalled his son asking.

"I've tried to explain to him that it's something for adults that he'll understand when he's older," Ray said.

That answer satisfied Taylor for about a mile, until the family drove past a similar sign.

"It's completely unavoidable," Ray said. "The signs refer to toys and novelties. Those things are going to catch his attention."

The abundance of outdoor sex advertisements also has caught the attention of Missouri legislators, who are aggressively trying to cut down on the signs.

Separate bills approved by the state House and Senate would ban most highway billboards for businesses where workers appear nude or where more than 10 percent of the store space is used to display pornography.

. . . .

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Well, from what I've been told, the hive wasn't even on your property, but in the woods on the other side of a lake.

I'm planning to annex that whole side of the lake. I need to lock in my supply of blueberries. Don't tell.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
EXCEPT -- that, the Spanish government also apparently did not correct itself when the explosives were correctly identified, _and_ apparently DID say that the new kind of explosive was also frequently used by ETA -- which is the part that the FT (not Drum) reported that the German intel. service sez was untrue.

The Spanish government, when the news of the other explosive began to trickle up, stopped referring to that whole argument. (See Aznar's speech on the night of the day when the Goma was first detected.) All of his calls to papers, intel types, leaders, etc., occurred prior to that point. The news from all over apparently shows that the mistake was not repeated once Aznar learned that Goma indicated a non-ETA source.

I think my main annoyance with this whole subject stems from my disgust at the speed with which people are jumping on the "he lied" bullshit for virtually everything that suits them, when the evidence shows "mistake", but no lie. It appears that Aznar was crassly, for political gain, hollering "ETA!" all over, hoping for the vote surge that would result, and I have no issue with people who think that to be unclassy behavior. It is. It's the automatic "he lied" shit that really gets on my nerves.

So, whether or not "Aznar lied", . . .

Maybe this explains the communication difficulties that I seem to have with some of you. Do you really view dishonesty - lying - as having the same moral status as making a mistake?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
The Spanish government, when the news of the other explosive began to trickle up, stopped referring to that whole argument. (See Aznar's speech on the night of the day when the Goma was first detected.) All of his calls to papers, intel types, leaders, etc., occurred prior to that point. The news from all over apparently shows that the mistake was not repeated once Aznar learned that Goma indicated a non-ETA source.

I think my main annoyance with this whole subject stems from my disgust at the speed with which people are jumping on the "he lied" bullshit for virtually everything that suits them, when the evidence shows "mistake", but no lie. It appears that Aznar was crassly, for political gain, hollering "ETA!" all over, hoping for the vote surge that would result, and I have no issue with people who think that to be unclassy behavior. It is. It's the automatic "he lied" shit that really gets on my nerves.

Maybe this explains the communication difficulties that I seem to have with some of you. Do you really view dishonesty - lying - as having the same moral status as making a mistake?

Please. I have posted to accounts here that make it clear that PP officials were doing more than you concede. It's not an "automatic 'he lied'" thing -- it's the emerging picture that that's what happened. Do you think Financial Times just assumes that Aznar lied? Or perhaps their reporters actually know what they're writing about.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Not Me
It is commercial speech, so maybe that is a difference. Just curious as to what you think.

http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/1110/3-...000005_09.html

Mixed feelings. On the one hand, I'm for virtually no speech regulation, subject to normal exceptions like slander. On the other hand, the "turn the channel" argument does not really work in this case, so the objectionable speech is really not avoidable. Sounds like the bigger problem is why the hell they have zoned sex clubs so close to residential housing.

[sgtclub]

From Drudge:

KERRY CALLED SECRET SERVICE AGENT 'SON OF A B*TCH' AFTER SLOPE SPILL

Dem presidential candidate John Kerry called his secret service agent a "son of a bitch" after the agent inadvertently moved into his path during a ski mishap in Idaho, sending Kerry falling into the snow.

When asked a moment later about the incident by a reporter on the ski run, Kerry said sharply, "I don't fall down," the "son of a b*itch knocked me over."

The Secret Service agent in question has complained about Kerry's treatment, top sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Last month, Kerry began receiving Secret Service protection.

"Obviously, the complications and burden of being monitored 24-hours a day is not just an a simple inconvenience," a government source explained Friday. "But Senator Kerry should understand agents are working for his safety and well-being."

On Friday, Kerry, his snowboard strapped to his back, hiked past 9,000 feet on Durrance Peak, then snowboarded down the mountain, taking repeated tumbles. Reporters counted six falls, although Kerry was out of sight for part of the descent.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
[Info on turn and timing of Spanish events]

I think my main annoyance with this whole subject stems from my disgust at the speed with which people are jumping on the "he lied" bullshit for virtually everything that suits them, when the evidence shows "mistake", but no lie.

Hmm. I get the picture. Reminds me of my feelings on the ease with which certain people leap out with the Kerry "flip-flop" and "opportunist" themes every time the man breathes.

Originally posted by bilmore
It appears that Aznar was crassly, for political gain, hollering "ETA!" all over, hoping for the vote surge that would result, and I have no issue with people who think that to be unclassy behavior. It is.

Isn't that precisely the conclusion that my post came to -- as I said (and as you noted below) -- "whether or not 'Aznar lied', he . . . " As a matter of fact, I think its a pretty good reason to vote against a guy.

Originally posted by bilmore
It's the automatic "he lied" shit that really gets on my nerves.

It surprises me that your vehemence on the Bush issue translates so directly to the Aznar issue. I'd think you'd care less, especially when there is such strong evidence that the man sought to crassly exploit (as opposed to standard political exploitation) of a national tragedy for votes while the feelings were still raw.

Originally posted by bilmore
Maybe this explains the communication difficulties that I seem to have with some of you. Do you really view dishonesty - lying - as having the same moral status as making a mistake?

Of course not, do you really derive that from what I've said? I put the "Aznar Lied" in quotes for a reason -- and only used it in a "whether or not".

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
From Drudge:

KERRY CALLED SECRET SERVICE AGENT 'SON OF A B*TCH' AFTER SLOPE SPILL

Bad news that the Secret Service is leaking this crap to Drudge. Maybe Kerry was out of line, or maybe it's just the sort of thing anyone would say after falling on their ass.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
Maybe this explains the communication difficulties that I seem to have with some of you. Do you really view dishonesty - lying - as having the same moral status as making a mistake?

I also think that some of the communication difficulties arise when you react not to the actual statements made by a poster, but to some image you have of who you think they are and/or what their views are.

S_A_M

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
From Drudge:

KERRY CALLED SECRET SERVICE AGENT 'SON OF A B*TCH' AFTER SLOPE SPILL

If true, what an asshole is right.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
From Drudge:

KERRY CALLED SECRET SERVICE AGENT 'SON OF A B*TCH' AFTER SLOPE SPILL

Wow. It's a good thing Drudge wasn't alive during the Johnson administration --- it would have blown his fucking mind.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Bad news that the Secret Service is leaking this crap to Drudge. Maybe Kerry was out of line, or maybe it's just the sort of thing anyone would say after falling on their ass.

Well, it sounds like the reporter asked Kerry about it as he was trying to pull his ass out of the snow, so I doubt that part was leaked.

But to the extent that the SS leaked that the guy complained about his treatment, I agree. Surely there was something more to it than Kerry complaining to a reporter -- if not, then whoever the agent is must be new to the job, and certainly didn't serve during the Clinton Administration.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Not Me
If true, what an asshole is right.

As much for the "I don't fall down" part as for the second part.

Stupid thing to say. Anyway, he's our asshole, so I'm sticking with him. Hillary in 2008!!

S_A_M