Politics As Usual

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
all thats fucked now is your party is so far off the path that we own the WH and both houses of congress so our wingnuts actually believe there's a reason to debate the non-homo marriage amendment.

Off the path? Who won the 2000 popular vote, Hank?



As of 07/09/2004:
Strong Kerry (168)
Weak Kerry (60)
Barely Kerry (63)
Exactly tied (0)
Barely Bush (55)
Weak Bush (38)
Strong Bush (154)

Kerry 291
Bush 247

And since when are we responsible for your wingnuts? Who died and made you Slave? Are you responsible for ours? I feel like I should bet on 11/2/2004 and make you pledge to Amy Goodman's show to make sure you're really feeling responsible.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Fuck that. It's precisely that kind of rationalization that allows Bilmore, Slave, and Club to claim to be pure libertarians while their party completely fucks over gays and lesbians.

If your concern for tax policy trumps your concern for domestic human rights, fine. But you don't get a pass at my cocktail parties because it wasn't your voting issue --- people don't get to vote for Mussolini because they really like his transportation policy and they ride the train every day.

What's a pure libertarian to do? You're not a bigot simply because you hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil. Even if you don't get a pass. And I agree with the latter.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're not a bigot simply because you hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil. Even if you don't get a pass.

The fight was originally over whether racism and homophobia were equally distributed between the two parties. As for racism, I doubt we'll ever get enough agreement on what constitutes racism to have a coherent discussion. On this board, however, there is hope we can agree which party has the better platform vis-a-vis LGBT issues, and that party is the Dems. If we assume the marketplace works, this is an indication of what Dems tend to want individually --- not unanimously, but it's safe to presume party platforms represent what the party thinks is appealing to its members.

I didn't say voting GOP made one a bigot. Clearly not so. I said voting GOP makes you responsible, in a non-enforceable moral sense, for the policies it enacts when in the majority. This strikes me as an underpinning of republican democracy. You can't simply say, "Well, I didn't agree with that part of his platform" and wash your hands of the very real impacts it's having on people. We don't let DUIs say, "I got drunk voluntarily, but obviously hitting those kids was a total accident --- never planned on it." People are responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions. Voting is an action. No free pass.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Off the path? Who won the 2000 popular vote, Hank?



As of 07/09/2004:
Strong Kerry (168)
Weak Kerry (60)
Barely Kerry (63)
Exactly tied (0)
Barely Bush (55)
Weak Bush (38)
Strong Bush (154)

Kerry 291
Bush 247

Oh my gawd! bush does not have a chance. i neeed to try and buy out of my bet. Where's Ty? Ty! Oh, Ty!
Shoot that right, He's taking a long walk to explain to his son how a woman's breasts are her private business.* Anyone here able to negotiate forhim?

*not sure if he talks to sonnie like a lawyer and will do the ole' CF for notme

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
As for racism, I doubt we'll ever get enough agreement on what constitutes racism to have a coherent discussion.

2

On this board, however, there is hope we can agree which party has the better platform vis-a-vis LGBT issues, and that party is the Dems. If we assume the marketplace works, this is an indication of what Dems tend to want individually --- not unanimously, but it's safe to presume party platforms represent what the party thinks is appealing to its members.

I didn't say voting GOP made one a bigot. Clearly not so. I said voting GOP makes you responsible, in a non-enforceable moral sense, for the policies it enacts when in the majority. This strikes me as an underpinning of republican democracy. You can't simply say, "Well, I didn't agree with that part of his platform" and wash your hands of the very real impacts it's having on people. We don't let DUIs say, "I got drunk voluntarily, but obviously hitting those kids was a total accident --- never planned on it." People are responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions. Voting is an action. No free pass.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with both you and club now.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Oh my gawd! bush does not have a chance. i neeed to try and buy out of my bet. Where's Ty? Ty! Oh, Ty!

{Sigh.} You know perfectly well what I meant. I don't understand why Dems fell for the "Gore was repugnant to the mass of humanity and utterly unelectable" line when he won the popular vote, or why the GOP is still flogging the "Dems are out of the mainstream" when the country has been split 50/50 for a while now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I said voting GOP makes you responsible, in a non-enforceable moral sense, for the policies it enacts when in the majority.

other than fucking with Stern, which Clinton's FCC started, name one ENACTED thing...

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Ah, shit.

Hank, I knew this day would come, I just didn't think it would come so quickly. I've not had time to prepare you. Here, have a seat. . . .

Now THAT was impressive.

S_A_M

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
On this board, however, there is hope we can agree which party has the better platform vis-a-vis LGBT issues, and that party is the Dems.

Is this going to be in the Donkey platform this year? I thought Kerry's position was similar to Bush's with a Clintonian straddle.

I didn't say voting GOP made one a bigot. Clearly not so. I said voting GOP makes you responsible, in a non-enforceable moral sense, for the policies it enacts when in the majority. This strikes me as an underpinning of republican democracy. You can't simply say, "Well, I didn't agree with that part of his platform" and wash your hands of the very real impacts it's having on people. We don't let DUIs say, "I got drunk voluntarily, but obviously hitting those kids was a total accident --- never planned on it." People are responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their actions. Voting is an action. No free pass.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel in no way responsible for the actions of an entire party if I vote for one of its members or the actions of a particular politician that I vote for unless I supported the particular action.

Do you agree with the entire DEM platform? I think not and you admitted as much earlier. So are you responsible for all actions of the DEMS/Kerry if he's elected?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
{Sigh.} You know perfectly well what I meant. I don't understand why Dems fell for the "Gore was repugnant to the mass of humanity and utterly unelectable" line when he won the popular vote, or why the GOP is still flogging the "Dems are out of the mainstream" when the country has been split 50/50 for a while now.

We all pretend its all so simple... but here's some thing I don't think are easly explained.

Bush was about equal to gore. If you add in Texas knowing a vote didn't matter and the Fla. panhandle, it was a wash.

But bush won at least a dozen states by an enormous amount (70%). That should mean if total vote is close, Bush should have lost the electoral, right? why not?

FCC fines up. 99-1 in the senate. What is up with that? Politically driven. how? why?

the country is not easily explained by polls, if you understand math. Who does Eva support?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Is this going to be in the Donkey platform this year? I thought Kerry's position was similar to Bush's with a Clintonian straddle.

I think the Dem campaign position will be (1) leave it to the states/DOMA is enough to protect states from recognition of gay marriage elsewhere; (2) no amending the Constitution; and (3) if you press me (Kerry/Edwards) personally as a Christian, I'd say what happens between same sex couples is not marriage in a religious sense, praise Jesus, but there is no reason in the world why there shouldn't be something in our nation, conferred by our states, that gives all the same benefits; what it's called is unimportant, and "marriage" means something in religions. We don't call the issuance of an SSN "baptism."

If you think that's a Clintonian straddle, you're nuts. Bush's position is to AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO LIMIT THE RIGHTS OF STATE COURTS TO INTERPRET STATE CONSTITUTIONS. Consider this an unusual favor --- I'm educating you about what the Bush proposes to do. IIAB/CYLL.

Do you agree with the entire DEM platform? I think not and you admitted as much earlier. So are you responsible for all actions of the DEMS/Kerry if he's elected?

No, and yes. Policies implemented.

Let me ask you something --- how do you feel about the felony murder rule?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Bush was about equal to gore.

ROTFL. I believe that was my point. You're the one saying Dems are getting their asses kicked in the culture wars. I'm the one saying it's a photo finish.

In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
--- Johann von Neumann

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
ROTFL. I believe that was my point. You're the one saying Dems are getting their asses kicked in the culture wars. I'm the one saying it's a photo finish.

In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
--- Johann von Neumann

String theory....things tie up?

the votes are equal,. the results are not. i even tossed you a bone about why you should be ahead.

don't even try and say I don't understand the math as if its a bad thing...
that I say I don't understand the results, because of the math shows i do understand the math. but Neumann is right I don't understand the results "thing." does not make sense.

Maybe sidd's right. its because I am a racist fuck.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
LGBT

En ingles, por favor.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Do you really think Hillary is a lesbian? If so, why?

Takes one to know one?