Making Baby Jesus Cry

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you think the people who were standed in the Convention Center or Dome have been keeping up with the newspapers or watching lots of TV to know about the bus issue? Give Penske a half hour with a bullhorn in the Astrodome and you might see some indignation.

Uh, the Reliant complex only has about 7,188 people left in it as of 2:41. We're speedy in getting people out into more permanent homes.

Looks like there's already indignation there, but it's over debit cards from FEMA, not busses.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Do you think the people who were standed in the Convention Center or Dome have been keeping up with the newspapers or watching lots of TV to know about the bus issue? Give Penske a half hour with a bullhorn in the Astrodome and you might see some indignation.

I'll ask again, since you have reading comprehension problems: Are you seeing stories about people who said they would have left before the storm had there only been transportation?

[Replaced_Texan]

Jesus fucking Christ, I never, ever thought I'd see something this bad in the United States:

Soldiers toting M-16s strengthened their grip on this swamped city as fears grew about the risks posed by the stinking floodwaters today. Officials braced for what could be a staggering death toll by readying 25,000 body bags.
. . .
Mayor C. Ray Nagin had earlier said New Orleans' death toll could reach 10,000. Already, a temporary warehouse morgue in rural St. Gabriel that had been prepared to take 1,000 bodies was being readied to handle 5,000. The official death toll in Mississippi climbed to 201 Wednesday, but more than 1,000 are feared dead there, too.

It makes my heart break.

eta estimates

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'll ask again, since you have reading comprehension problems: Are you seeing stories about people who said they would have left before the storm had there only been transportation?

you're the one who parks on the wrong side of the road.

you said why are there no reports on indignation. i said maybe they have heard much in the way of news on the subject.

you may be right that none of the 100000 people would have left if offered free transportation. Of course, that does shit on the Dem talking point of the poor black people being left there to die by an uncaring government.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'll ask again, since you have reading comprehension problems: Are you seeing stories about people who said they would have left before the storm had there only been transportation?

Declare a pre-emptive State of Emergency and issue a mandatory evacuation notice. You either get on the buses or you get you arrested and are put on the buses. At the end of the day, if 25,000 lives had been saved instead of lost, the infringement, if any, on civil liberties could be discussed and appropriately dismissed.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Declare a pre-emptive State of Emergency and issue a mandatory evacuation notice. You either get on the buses or you get you arrested and are put on the buses. At the end of the day, if 25,000 lives had been saved instead of lost, the infringement, if any, on civil liberties could be discussed and appropriately dismissed.

I think Castro uses a similar approach. I had no idea you guys were so tight.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Jesus fucking Christ, I never, ever thought I'd see something this bad in the United States:

Moving away from the blame game for a minute, really? Are you accentuating the United States part of the sentence? If so, why? It's a natural disaster. Granted we are God's Chosen Country, but I think the intelligent design module is set to automatic on the natural disaster component.

Not that I think of this stuff with any frequency, but I would imagine that a major earthquake on the West Coast, the big one, iyw, will result in a far greater devastation. I am fairly certain that there are models that predict more than 25K deaths.

Unfortunately, but possible.

And, of course, it will be Bush's fault.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I think Castro uses a similar approach. I had no idea you guys were so tight.

Means may be similar, ends are different. Didn't Clinton teach us that the ends justify the means?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Moving away from the blame game for a minute, really? Are you accentuating the United States part of the sentence? If so, why? It's a natural disaster. Granted we are God's Chosen Country, but I think the intelligent design module is set to automatic on the natural disaster component.

Not that I think of this stuff with any frequency, but I would imagine that a major earthquake on the West Coast, the big one, iyw, will result in a far greater devastation. I am fairly certain that there are models that predict more than 25K deaths.

Unfortunately, but possible.

And, of course, it will be Bush's fault.

You are very close to ending up on my ignore list.

ETA, forget it. I'm just leaving the politics board for awhile.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
you said why are there no reports on indignation. i said maybe they have heard much in the way of news on the subject.

Most people are out of NO now, and there are plenty of human-interest stories being reported. Why none about people complaining that they could not find a ride?

you may be right that none of the 100000 people would have left if offered free transportation.

Certainly some would have, but I'm guessing not many. Which would suggest that Penske's "primary responsibility" thing is a load of hooey, which is why he doesn't answer these questions.

Of course, that does shit on the Dem talking point of the poor black people being left there to die by an uncaring government.

No, not when we're talking about FEMA and the people left their to die while firefighters were sitting in the Atlanta Sheraton being told how to hand out fliers with FEMA's (800) number, and so.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Declare a pre-emptive State of Emergency and issue a mandatory evacuation notice. You either get on the buses or you get you arrested and are put on the buses. At the end of the day, if 25,000 lives had been saved instead of lost, the infringement, if any, on civil liberties could be discussed and appropriately dismissed.

I would respond to this if I thought you were serious.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Most people are out of NO now, and there are plenty of human-interest stories being reported. Why none about people complaining that they could not find a ride?



Certainly some would have, but I'm guessing not many. Which would suggest that Penske's "primary responsibility" thing is a load of hooey, which is why he doesn't answer these questions.

You have to be kidding me. Could you be please be objective for a minute and explain why you continue to back end a defence of Nagin? The buses should have been there, they weren't. Maybe all of the people who wanted to complain died.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I would respond to this if I thought you were serious.

Why do you think I am not?

[Southern Patriot]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Please stop this insanity Ty. Your deflection of responsibility away from Nagin (and Blanco) to Bush and the Feds is an implicit defence. Your refusal to acknowledge the bus fiasco despite massive amounts of evidence is embarassing. Just admit that Nagin is guilty of being primarily responsible for the death and misery of many and we can move on.

Son, I understand your point, really I do. I agree that Bush is a true patriot and utterly free of all responsibility as commander in chief with respect to our army boys not deploying. I also agree that the fact that a few states didn't send their national guard couldn't as Blanco requested because Washington hadn't processed the paperwork is probably just a bunch of Yankee double talk (hell, what do they expect, it was August vacation). And that Bus thing, well, Ty ought to know like you do that you got to pull the buses up and tell those people to get on, cause they don't take initiative on their own.

But the logic that saying anyone else is responsible will take blame away from Nagin - well, hell, boy, then how are we going to blame the victims?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
You have to be kidding me. Could you be please be objective for a minute and explain why you continue to back end a defence of Nagin? The buses should have been there, they weren't. Maybe all of the people who wanted to complain died.

I can't tell whether you are being stupid or being a troll. Either way, I'm sick of it. I'm not defending Nagin. I have yet to see a good explanation, anywhere, of what happened with those buses, notwithstanding asking you repeatedly. The pictures look damning enough, but I want to know more. In any event, if the city had made the buses available, my bet is that most of the people who ended up staying would have stayed anyway. One reason for this is that I'm not seeing complaints by people now that they would have got on those buses and were instead stuck in the city. There are a lot of reasons for people to try to ride the storm out instead of leaving. For example, if you don't have any money, and you get on a bus, then what? For this reason, no matter how lousy a decision Nagin made vis-a-vis the buses before the hurricane, I don't think that decision was ultimately as significant as, e.g., the abject failure of the federal government to do much of anything in the several days after the hurricane.