Politics: A new beginning

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
those are almost exactly my thoughts on it. Add to that:

3: Did Edwards do well because people actually listened to his positions (more coherent and interesting, frankly, than just about any of the other Dems) or just because he didn't seem to be either bragging about his arrogant self all the time or trying to bust Dean's ass?

Better commercials than the others.

In NH, Wes Clark has good commercials, too. Black and White works for him (not so much for Dean, who is now trying to do some B&W commercials, too).

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
It was empirically proven that the Earth revolves around the Sun. As I said, much of the data which was used for that proof was gathered through the use of telescopes.

Actually, not necessarily. The first demonstrations of the earth's rotation around the sun did not rely on data collected from telescopes (Copernicus didn't use one, though Gallileo did to later refine the theory). The first direct proof - stellar parallax - requires careful observation, but it is, I understand, observable without aid if your reference star is fairly close.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Better commercials than the others.

In NH, Wes Clark has good commercials, too. Black and White works for him (not so much for Dean, who is now trying to do some B&W commercials, too).

Ain't democracy* grand! An uninformed electorate getting its information from 30 second commercials.

*well, technically, a representative republic, but democracy is so much catchier

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
1: The labor movement is dead, dead, dead and even those to the left of the left have realized it and are moving on to more promising pastures.

Agreed, though as an aside, if someone would tell the supermarket workers here in CA that, I'd be much appreciative.

Heard this morning that the AFL-CIO is taking over the national strategy for these strikers (which as a matter of tactics isn't a bad idea, because over the last 4 months, all they've managed to do is alienate most of the public). Sure, staging a "pray-in" at the home of the Safeway CEO makes for nice theater, but at this stage of the game I think people are sick of this shit, and just want to be able to walk into an Albertson's and buy a reasonably fresh head of lettuce for less than $4.29.

5: Edwards should be the VP pick for whomever wins - they should groom that guy, he'll go far.

Yes. He's running an optimistic campaign, and from what I can tell has cleverly blended a populist message with a moral element that may play well to the center. That, and he's got the touch on the campaign trail in a way that neither Kerry nor Dean do. One of the quotes I heard last night was Carville's assessment that Edwards has the best speaking talent, and gives the best stump speeches, that he's ever seen (including Clinton).

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me
Ain't democracy* grand! An uninformed electorate getting its information from 30 second commercials.

Be serious. If you don't catch 'em in the first five seconds, they're off getting another beer.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Gattigap
One of the quotes I heard last night was Carville's assessment that Edwards has the best speaking talent, and gives the best stump speeches, that he's ever seen (including Clinton).

You don't think he's won $150+ million in plaintiff verdicts based on the actual merit of his cases, do you?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Me
Ain't democracy* grand! An uninformed electorate getting its information from 30 second commercials.

*well, technically, a representative republic, but democracy is so much catchier

If you make everyone sit through a debate, Kucinich wins.

Actually, part of the art of a good ad campaign is that it reinforces the best of what they say in those debates, depends on multiple ads to communicate rather than one 30 second bit, is sufficiently truthful to avoid counterattacks, and leaves viewers with enough substance so they don't feel like they're being sold the latest in blouses. Part of what makes both Clark's and Edwards' commercials good is that they do have a bit of substance.

Still, I'd just as soon go for that beer, myself.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Gattigap
One of the quotes I heard last night was Carville's assessment that Edwards has the best speaking talent, and gives the best stump speeches, that he's ever seen (including Clinton).

Carville is exaggerating. He may be the best of the current crop, but Edwards's speeches sound like the closing argument of a typical plaintiff's lawyer. Nothing special about that. There are millions of them.

Say what you will about Clinton. He was a wonderful speaker, even if you didn't like what he was saying, as was occasionally the case even for those of us who voted for him twice.

I rarely watch TV news. When I see Bush speak, I'm shocked. For all the shit NPR takes about being liberal, they give him the same courtesy they give all others --- they completely edit out his verbal tics, frequent aphasia, and other uncomfortable pauses during impromptu speeches (which you can't do on TV without it being visible). Put aside whether he's a brilliant politician. As a public speaker, he sucks as badly as his worst critics feared.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
One of the quotes I heard last night was Carville's assessment that Edwards has the best speaking talent, and gives the best stump speeches, that he's ever seen (including Clinton).

And including Reagan, too, which of course only futher solidified the idea in my mind that Carville is a raging moron.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
You don't think he's won $150+ million in plaintiff verdicts based on the actual merit of his cases, do you?

No but I bet the average voter does, which, of course, brings us back to my earlier point.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
If you make everyone sit through a debate, Kucinich wins.

Ummm, could you 'splain that one, please?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Say what you will about Clinton. He was a wonderful speaker, even if you didn't like what he was saying, as was occasionally the case even for those of us who voted for him twice.

Had the vote been "who can captivate you while speaking", I would have voted for BC every time. The man can hold your attention and interest like a revival meeting.

[Not Me]

I just wanted to let you know how much I missed my imaginary friends while I was gone.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
Had the vote been "who can captivate you while speaking", I would have voted for BC every time. The man can hold your attention and interest like a revival meeting.

That was only true for me after Monicagate broke. After that, I just couldn't stop looking at him whenever he was on the TV, kind of like when I drive by a car wreck on the side of the road.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Actually, not necessarily. The first demonstrations of the earth's rotation around the sun did not rely on data collected from telescopes (Copernicus didn't use one, though Gallileo did to later refine the theory). The first direct proof - stellar parallax - requires careful observation, but it is, I understand, observable without aid if your reference star is fairly close.

Thank you. And certainly outer space telescopes aren't intended to tell us much about life here.