Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Not only did he not have the cards, but they dealt a new hand and didn't deal him in. This was a big fuck you by the rank and file to the leader.

Only after he asked for it. The Senate is not a place where the leader gets to tell the Senators when to jump and how high.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Not only did he not have the cards, but they dealt a new hand and didn't deal him in. This was a big fuck you by the rank and file to the leader.

I think this analogy is stretching too far at this point. The hand was dealt in the 2004 election (well, and 2002 and 2000). The Senate is what it is. Frist proceeded forward figuring he had enough votes, when in fact he didn't, or didn't have enough secure votes. He was two short, in the end.

If you want to make a poker analogy, both he and Reid has weak hands, but enough to think they could win with. They both kept raising the stakes, figuring the bluff would make the other side fold, and they could take the pot. In the end, Frist went all in, Reid called, and it turned out to be a push.

The bigger question, and I think the answer is "no" , is if this centrist coalition can hold beyond filibusters. If not, then it's back to business as usual in the senate, with not much accomplished, other than stuff the majority can ram through. But, if the centrists are able to maintain some coalition for other matters as well, this could mark the beginning of a fairly significant power shift, and, if so, Bush could be screwed for the next 3 years.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I think this analogy is stretching too far at this point. The hand was dealt in the 2004 election (well, and 2002 and 2000). The Senate is what it is. Frist proceeded forward figuring he had enough votes, when in fact he didn't, or didn't have enough secure votes. He was two short, in the end.

If you want to make a poker analogy, both he and Reid has weak hands, but enough to think they could win with. They both kept raising the stakes, figuring the bluff would make the other side fold, and they could take the pot. In the end, Frist went all in, Reid called, and it turned out to be a push.

The bigger question, and I think the answer is "no" , is if this centrist coalition can hold beyond filibusters. If not, then it's back to business as usual in the senate, with not much accomplished, other than stuff the majority can ram through. But, if the centrists are able to maintain some coalition for other matters as well, this could mark the beginning of a fairly significant power shift, and, if so, Bush could be screwed for the next 3 years.

Frist is just showing the tensions within his party; there is increasing disenchantment with the far right among the Blue State Republicans, yet the far right does not take kindly to those who fail to do its bidding. Anyone looking to prolong the agony of the Bush coalition will need to whip the right into their usual rabid frenzy, and that requires going down in flames fighting for some of the judges and on the Schiavo case and on similar issues.

Frist may not be a real candidate, but he's as real a candidate as there is among the Rs, and if he can swing a boatload of red state die-hards his way by going down fighting the "good fight", he'll be the stronger for it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Agreed. He got rolled.

Bill Frist's ascension has always appeared to me to be a bad real life mirror of the Omen III. I couldn't be happier to see someone take it in the ass so incredibly hard.

If the karmic wave goes as far as it should, James Dobson will be diagnosed with terminal anal chancres.

This is proof God does exist. There must be a hand somewhere guiding us toward common sense...

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
He put a bunch of moderate Republicans in a situation they really didn't want to be in, so they found a better way out.

You're too kind. How bout:

He whored it up to galvanize a base for his own political motives, but he bit off more than he could chew and wound up getting his ass handed to him.

Bill Frist is a king screaming whore, and a stupid one at that. First he gets dragged into the Sciavo thing, and makes an ass of himself guessing at her condition before natl news reporters. A shrewd operator would guage the wind at that point, realize the public did not want any more crazy right wing vitriol for the moment, and lay low. What does Frist do? He takes on not just Democrats, but most of the moderate wing of his party, in another battle hugely unpopular with most of the country. Baffling.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Spanky
I can't believe that no one freaked out over this post. Are there not any Atheists or Agnostics on this board?

I believe very strongly in God. But you're still wrong.

A sense of morals or ethics can still be postulated simply on a set of philosophical or political principles, or a combination of the two. In fact, a moral or ethical code can be postulated based upon the above, tempered by a firm belief that each person's self-interest will, on a macro level, balance out to achieve a moral and ethical society.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Only after he asked for it. The Senate is not a place where the leader gets to tell the Senators when to jump and how high.

Democratic Senators can't jump.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Frist may not be a real candidate, but he's as real a candidate as there is among the Rs, and if he can swing a boatload of red state die-hards his way by going down fighting the "good fight", he'll be the stronger for it.

Last time i checked there were 30 Republican governors.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Bill Frist is a king screaming whore, and a stupid one at that. First he gets dragged into the Sciavo thing, and makes an ass of himself guessing at her condition before natl news reporters. A shrewd operator would guage the wind at that point, realize the public did not want any more crazy right wing vitriol for the moment, and lay low. What does Frist do? He takes on not just Democrats, but most of the moderate wing of his party, in another battle hugely unpopular with most of the country. Baffling.

Frist determined some time ago that he would get to the WH if he could get the religious right to turn out for him and not someone else. The RR feels that they were the deciding factor in Bush's 2004 win and now they want theirs. Frist wants to give it to them and thereby earn their backing in '08. He found himself between the hammer of the RR and the anvil Reid laid for him of aversion to elimination of the filibuster. The irony (well, one of them, anyway) is the Republicans not eliminated all the alternatives to the filibuster already (blue slips, etc.), Frist would easily have won.

Besides, Frist looks too much like Rich Little to be president.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Last time i checked there were 30 Republican governors.

Pataki for President? Or are you going to back Mitt Romney?

PS, The Republican Gov Assoc. counts 28.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Last time i checked there were 30 Republican governors.

28. But true, Hank, they're all packed with national electability.

Let's goooooooo, Govenor Rounds!

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Last time i checked there were 30 Republican governors.

Yeah, but I can just see Pataki flinching in front of the whole congregation when he goes to pick up the snake and losing the primaries to someone with stronger Christian values. So maybe it's only 29 viable candidates.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Last time i checked there were 30 Republican governors.

Right now, in California Arnold couldn't deliver a floral arrangment, and he's constitutionally ineligible. Make that 28.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You're too kind. How bout:

He whored it up to galvanize a base for his own political motives, but he bit off more than he could chew and wound up getting his ass handed to him.

Bill Frist is a king screaming whore, and a stupid one at that. First he gets dragged into the Sciavo thing, and makes an ass of himself guessing at her condition before natl news reporters. A shrewd operator would guage the wind at that point, realize the public did not want any more crazy right wing vitriol for the moment, and lay low. What does Frist do? He takes on not just Democrats, but most of the moderate wing of his party, in another battle hugely unpopular with most of the country. Baffling.

Here's what Mark Schmitt said:

• Frist put himself out there with the religious right, made this a matter in which some of them chose to speak in "the prophetic voice," from which no compromise is possible. The mistake Frist made was a small one at the time, and he probably didn't even know he was making it. But by enlisting these outside groups as partners and permanent allies, he cut off his own freedom of maneuver. When he finally realized that a critical mass of his own caucus did not want to blow up the Senate, he was trapped by outside forces. Now he's utterly ruined. John McCain and Lindsay Graham are setting the agenda in the Senate, while to the religious right, Frist is not a martyr to principle, but just an ineffectual leader, a guy who talks big but can't deliver.
  
  (I saw Joe Scarborough on MSNBC -- whose insights into Republican dynamics always seem very solid -- describe Frist as the winner here in the long-run, because McCain will have forfeited the support of the far-right in the 2008 primaries, making it available to Frist. That could be right, but McCain was unlikely to get that support anyway, and there are several 2008 candidates -- Brownback, Santorum, Allen -- who already have a stronger base than Frist with that group and who haven't promised something big that they can't deliver. I think Scarborough's right about McCain, though, and he goes from a candidate the far-right is uncomfortable with to one who will now be "totally unacceptable" to them. It's a mutual destruction pact, and the Republican field for 2008 is now down to the second-tier. Or, in honor of new front-runner George Allen, let's say, second-string.)

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ironweed
Yeah, but I can just see Pataki flinching in front of the whole congregation when he goes to pick up the snake and losing the primaries to someone with stronger Christian values. So maybe it's only 29 viable candidates.

We drink stryknine. Snake handlers are extreme. And It does help whittle the field down, like how You guys have the candidate's sisters blow Sharpton. You get down to the people who are serious right quick that way.