Get Me Out Of This Shit Career

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Well, the Mrs. has set a deadline for my decision on my career, and its coming quickly, so I guess in the next two months you'll get to see where this whining windbag goes... I'll be your guinea pig.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Just strolling by, but that sounds like a disaster. What, if you don't change jobs she expects you to stay at a law firm (or whatever your current gig is) for the rest of your life?

I doubt it's anything so sinister; she probably just told him to either quit law or quit complaining about it.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...=1012571727304

I wonder what this means in terms of job openings at the SEC?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Are you serious? Even for senior associates? Or are you just talking about first years (tho it seems a little high for that)? BigTex pays better than that, and we don't have y'all's income taxes and high insurance rates and stuff.

Ltl,

I shit you not, my dear. Sure, a few associates with oodles of business may break $200K by their seventh year... some may even make $250-300K, but that's rarified air here, and it ain't handed out based on merit. You need to be related to a major fucking client for that kind of gig. If you can get into a national firm like Dechert or Morgan and you don't get blown out at year six and are willing to trade your soul for partnership 12 years out, you can probably make $200-250k and up from year eight forward.

Forget about being a service partner. You're either being de-equitized or paid $200k at 50. Don't beleive me? Check all the regionals websites and see just how many firms have two and three tiered partnership tracks. Everybody's a fucking nonequity partner these days. I could probably go grab that title if I had shit for brains. How do you think all the firms are raising PPP these days? They aren't creating massive mountains of money from bkcy and litigation depts... they're cutting all their service partners. The PPP inflation going on and the masking of how its done would make Ken Lay blush. You're probably saying "Sebbie, you're an angry crank and you love playing chicken little." To that I say check out the numbers yourself. Tell me what growth industries you see flooding into Philly now... hell, tell me what growth industries you saw flooding into Philly in the late 90s other than the Safeguard Companies.

Pennsylvania is a aimless wreck with a busted rudder. Bad taxes, old population, lack of growth and now Pittsburgh is teetering on the edge of ruin again. The Mayor out there just announced massive cuts and the City's bond rating was drop[ped from A- to BB. Great... my state taxes will go up...

Well, you're in Texas... Think of how long I'd last in Texas with my mouth. I'd have a cowboy boot in my ass faster than you can say "Fuck Parcells."

Philly and Baltimore are in the rust belt. You can't make money where there's no business. We're going through tremendous brain drain right now. I'm looking a Phoenix right now... ever been there? I hear the economy's doing well.

S(Texas, eh? Sounds nicer every minute)D

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Ltl,

I shit you not, my dear. Sure, a few associates with oodles of business may break $200K by their seventh year... some may even make $250-300K, but that's rarified air here, and it ain't handed out based on merit. You need to be related to a major fucking client for that kind of gig. If you can get into a national firm like Dechert or Morgan and you don't get blown out at year six and are willing to trade your soul for partnership 12 years out, you can probably make $200-250k and up from year eight forward.

Forget about being a service partner. You're either being de-equitized or paid $200k at 50. Don't beleive me? Check all the regionals websites and see just how many firms have two and three tiered partnership tracks. Everybody's a fucking nonequity partner these days. I could probably go grab that title if I had shit for brains. How do you think all the firms are raising PPP these days? They aren't creating massive mountains of money from bkcy and litigation depts... they're cutting all their service partners. The PPP inflation going on and the masking of how its done would make Ken Lay blush. You're probably saying "Sebbie, you're an angry crank and you love playing chicken little." To that I say check out the numbers yourself. Tell me what growth industries you see flooding into Philly now... hell, tell me what growth industries you saw flooding into Philly in the late 90s other than the Safeguard Companies.

Pennsylvania is a aimless wreck with a busted rudder. Bad taxes, old population, lack of growth and now Pittsburgh is teetering on the edge of ruin again. The Mayor out there just announced massive cuts and the City's bond rating was drop[ped from A- to BB. Great... my state taxes will go up...

Well, you're in Texas... Think of how long I'd last in Texas with my mouth. I'd have a cowboy boot in my ass faster than you can say "Fuck Parcells."

Philly and Baltimore are in the rust belt. You can't make money where there's no business. We're going through tremendous brain drain right now. I'm looking a Phoenix right now... ever been there? I hear the economy's doing well.

S(Texas, eh? Sounds nicer every minute)D

I was not inviting you to TX. It does not now sound like you are saying sr. associates make $140k, so I am confused. I will assume it is bombast and that bigphilly pays basically like bigtex does, but we don't have all that winter crap and people are much politer drivers. Still asshole drivers, but politer than yours.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

I can't speak for Philly, but I know there are semi-major markets where very few senior assocates are making $140K. Seattle and Portland, to name two. Outside a botique or two, I don't know that there is a single BigPDX firm (to the extent that isn't an oxymoron) that pays senior associates even close to that (although there are shops where you could get there with hours bonuses). The relatively low pay should make it easier to get out, but I haven't figured out a way to do it yet.

And for my friend Fugee: unless you've got a specific practice background that will bring in certain types of mediation work, I think ADR is a hard area to get started in. As Raouuuul noted, most of the big lit mediation work goes to "retired" judges or old successful litigators. A partial exception is real estate; there are a fair number of solo or small firm real estate lawyers around here who spend a fair chunk of their practices on real estate-related mediation. If you're really interested, look for "lists" that provide referral work. E.g., does the local state court have a list of available mediators that they give to litigants? Is there a local arbitratrion service that maintains a list of eligible mediators/arbitrators? In the real estate arena, realtors associations can have similar lists.

I would ideally like to find the same sort of flexibility and reduced work hours that Fugee is looking for. Don't know what that would look like, though. Sadly, I've ruled out rawk star at this point.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I was not inviting you to TX. It does not now sound like you are saying sr. associates make $140k, so I am confused. I will assume it is bombast and that bigphilly pays basically like bigtex does, but we don't have all that winter crap and people are much politer drivers. Still asshole drivers, but politer than yours.

No, no bombast. If you are the garden variety senior assoc in Philly (5-9 yrs) you are probably not making more than $140k.

If you are super-wired for business (which is rare since there's no business here), you might make $200.

If you are at a national firm (of which there are only four - Dechert, Morgan, Akin and Piper) and have somehow managed to survive past year seven, you could be making $250, but you're extremely rare.

So, no... Philly is not like BigTex if BigTex is paying five year and up associates on average in excess of $140K.

Compression here is horrible. The regional firms start everyone at $105 and by year seven you're making $125-135.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Compression here is horrible. The regional firms start everyone at $105 and by year seven you're making $125-135.

Beats the NW, where most regional firms start at $80-85 and by year 7 you might see $100K. Obviously, I didn't move back here for the money.

Now which is easier to sell: a novel or a screenplay? Not that I've written either, but it could happen.

[evenodds]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Beats the NW, where most regional firms start at $80-85 and by year 7 you might see $100K. Obviously, I didn't move back here for the money.

Now which is easier to sell: a novel or a screenplay? Not that I've written either, but it could happen.

Screenplay. Plus the money is better.

Originally posted by evenodds
Screenplay. Plus the money is better.

Plus you get to hang out with the stars who play your characters if the movie ever gets made. Novelists get consigned to long book tours in strange cities, if they're lucky.

but you're wrong on the 140 issue, Seb.

I would regard myself as a fairly unremarkable associate at an average "Big" Phila firm, and I make a little less than 200K.

Your other points are, alas, pretty much right on.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by racer_x
but you're wrong on the 140 issue, Seb.

I would regard myself as a fairly unremarkable associate at an average "Big" Phila firm, and I make a little less than 200K.

Your other points are, alas, pretty much right on.

I, for one, am relieved. Not a lot of lawyers in TX on the whole make such large salaries, but most all lawyers in BigTex do, and I'd've been shocked if BigPhilly had totally blown off the 2000 raises.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Beats the NW, where most regional firms start at $80-85 and by year 7 you might see $100K. Obviously, I didn't move back here for the money.

Now which is easier to sell: a novel or a screenplay? Not that I've written either, but it could happen.

Definitely a screenplay.

The great thing about a screenplay is you usually sell it before it is even half-written, and then someone else finishes it because the studio wants it properly schlocked up. And because you don't understand all the stuff you need to know about stage and shooting directions.

(Sean Penn should play me).

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by racer_x
but you're wrong on the 140 issue, Seb.

I would regard myself as a fairly unremarkable associate at an average "Big" Phila firm, and I make a little less than 200K.

Your other points are, alas, pretty much right on.

Racer,

I know of only two places where you can pull that dough as an associate. And I'm not kissing your ass here, but if you're between 5 and 8 years out you are above average. You're also rare in that most people bolt or are asked to leave the regionals long before they get anywhere near the 200 range.

I can think of only two regional joints where you could pull off such a deal before year 6, and one requires a substantial chunk of business to do so, so if you're there, again, you're pretty rare. Me thinks you're humble... that or your definition of unremarkable is a bit skewed.

S(you're pretty damn rare, even if you don't believe it)D

Maybe you're right, Seb. I value that you value me.

Change the words "fairly" to "very" and "unremarkable" to "unhappy" in my orignal post, and I'll stand by it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by racer_x
Maybe you're right, Seb. I value that you value me.

Change the words "fairly" to "very" and "unremarkable" to "unhappy" in my orignal post, and I'll stand by it.

Hell, Racer, I understand. I've been running up remarkable bar tabs lately taking mental holidays from this town. You are not alone. There's a strong stench of slow long decline wafting up from the streets around this town... Everybody said when Ed got the Governorship, this town would come back. I hear he's doing his best to play Santa, but he's got no gifts in his bag (Elves' union went on strike - wants a better workers' comp package). Same old govt contracts passing from hand to hand. Its like Japan... state sponsored corp welfare... just enough to keep the lights on... But hey, at least the feds are keeping busy chasing the mayor's office in circles over some contract shenanigans. Its like Watergate, only uninteresting.

S(at least it ain't Pittsburgh)D