Nutjobs Ranting About Politics. - Page 3

Tyrone Slothrop · 07-20-2004, 01:06 AM

I'm guessing Hello will be interested in this. Not so much to debate here -- just how to do the hard work of law enforcement.

sgtclub · 07-20-2004, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Kevin Drum tries to review the bidding and concludes that maybe Wilson lied, but so what?

more

So the debate has now shifted from Wilson Didn't Lie to OK Wilson Lied, But So What? Sound familiar anybody?

Tyrone Slothrop · 07-20-2004, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
So the debate has now shifted from Wilson Didn't Lie to OK Wilson Lied, But So What? Sound familiar anybody?

(1) I never said he didn't lie -- I wasn't sure what he said, so I asked for his alleged lies. I don't recall getting an answer, so I found my own.

(2) I did the "so what?" post days ago, as I recall. I don't recall that you had a good answer, either.

SlaveNoMore · 07-20-2004, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
(1) I never said he didn't lie -- I wasn't sure what he said, so I asked for his alleged lies. I don't recall getting an answer, so I found my own.

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Tyrone Slothrop · 07-20-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Slave: Wilson lied.

Me: Oh?

Slave: Sho' nuff.

Me: If that's lying, Bush isn't looking so hot.

Slave: [nada]

Slave: Something responding to what I said to club.

Me: So he lied; so what?

SlaveNoMore · 07-20-2004, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Slave: Wilson lied.

Me: Oh?

Slave: Sho' nuff.

Me: If that's lying, Bush isn't looking so hot.

Slave: [nada]

Slave: Something responding to what I said to club.

Me: So he lied; so what?

Right. I point out articles that he lied, and you finally concede the fact when one of your guys concedes the point.

And so what - the What is that it finally lays to rest the claims of a spotlight-stealing blowhard for the left.

Tyrone Slothrop · 07-20-2004, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Right. I point out articles that he lied, and you finally concede the fact when one of your guys concedes the point.

I don't recall that the articles you linked to ever pointed to a prior inconsistent statement, which was all I was asking for. (Apologies if I missed it.)

But if it makes you happy that people are taking Wilson down, that's fine with me, since I couldn't be bothered to buy his book and think it won't do the cause of truth and justice any harm.

ltl/fb · 07-20-2004, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You want to talk psycho- babble? I think you'd be nicer person if your mom hadn't kept bringing new "Uncles" home after Dad left.

Stick with the fat jokes.

sgtclub · 07-20-2004, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
(1) I never said he didn't lie -- I wasn't sure what he said, so I asked for his alleged lies. I don't recall getting an answer, so I found my own.

(2) I did the "so what?" post days ago, as I recall. I don't recall that you had a good answer, either.

Go back and search the old thread, Slave and I have exhausted ourselves posting on this.

The "so what" is important because it is Wilson that raised the 16 word issue, which I submit was the spark that set the "Bush Lied" crowd ablaze.

I have no problem with you or anyone else criticizing the president's policies. That is fair game, though I think the rhetoric should be toned down a notch when it comes to foreign policy. But this "Bush Lied" shit was WAY over the top, and I believe has harmed our efforts abroad.

Shape Shifter · 07-20-2004, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Right. I point out articles that he lied, and you finally concede the fact when one of your guys concedes the point.

And so what - the What is that it finally lays to rest the claims of a spotlight-stealing blowhard for the left.

The only "lie" he's been caught in so far is about how he received the assignment to investigate the claims. You haven't explained how this is a lie as opposed to a reasonable difference of opinion as to characterization. And you haven't explained how this affects the credibility of his claims (or, more importantly, the credibility of W's claims).

His wife was in the CIA, the CIA was looking for people with experience in the field and in the subject matter. Are you proposing a wall that separates what undercover CIA operatives learn in their peronals lives from their professional ones?

All you have done is call someone with a distinguished reord in foreign service a lying partisan hack. Go ahead. That meshes perfectly well with the style of stormtrooper, focus group oriented politics currently practiced by the Republican party. The intelligent voter is tired of this talking points bullshit.

So you still think Wilson lied about the details of how he came to the attention of the CIA? It's not like he deliberately misled a nation to whip them up into a fear-fueled frenzy for an ill-advised war or anything. Get some fucking perspective. Those of us who bought into the pre-war rhetoric (and that's all it turned out to be) because we were sure the administration knew something we didn't feel like we're left standing naked with panties on our heads and Lynndie just took our last cowby killer.

Shape Shifter · 07-20-2004, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Go back and search the old thread, Slave and I have exhausted ourselves posting on this.

The "so what" is important because it is Wilson that raised the 16 word issue, which I submit was the spark that set the "Bush Lied" crowd ablaze.

I have no problem with you or anyone else criticizing the president's policies. That is fair game, though I think the rhetoric should be toned down a notch when it comes to foreign policy. But this "Bush Lied" shit was WAY over the top, and I believe has harmed our efforts abroad.

W's lying has hurt us more than the criticism of his lying.

Say_hello_for_me · 07-20-2004, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm guessing Hello will be interested in this. Not so much to debate here -- just how to do the hard work of law enforcement.

Not sure how the New Zealand press will report this, but AP has more on the (perhaps) mythology being created for Mssr. Allawi.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._the_strongman

Say_hello_for_me · 07-20-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm guessing Hello will be interested in this. Not so much to debate here -- just how to do the hard work of law enforcement.

I'll add that I don't have any problems with what the guy wrote. The "smart" allocation of resources is what the NYPD started doing. Before that, it was just basically fixed allocations (foot units way back when) or an even worse Pavlovian allocation (mobile response units).

In terms of what seems most likely for the future, his point about the relatively small number of "shooters" in the criminal culture is very important. Boston's youth profiling project showed amazing results, way back when, in identifying the most likely shooters and providing long term counseling etc.

The bottom line for me is that none of that stuff is possible without good leadership, and its been sorely lacking in many places.

Hello

Hank Chinaski · 07-20-2004, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
W's lying has hurt us more than the criticism of his lying.

so far you guys haven't proven any Bush "lies." but club and slave are now 1-0, or .5-0 Ty, did you lose 2 separate fights, or was that a tag team?

sgtclub · 07-20-2004, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
W's lying has hurt us more than the criticism of his lying.

You need a good Colonel Jessup speech right about now.