Politics: A new beginning

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Concur. (1-0)

Whatever happened to Ellsberg?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
You're thinking like a lawyer

Shame on me. Didn't realize I was arguing a different point, which I thought was the one raised.

If the question is: Is this, like Watergate, a political misdeed that transcends the actual criminal acts (if any) committed by the transgressors? Then my answer is, yes, because politics should be played by certain unwritten rules.

But, from the article it sounded like Frist was already hanging Miranda out to dry. If he's on paternity leave, Frist's office would know that.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Putting aside the intractible anti-abortion/pro-choice debate, today is the annual rally for life, or whatever the Roe anniversary party is called. A large mass of people is now walking by my office (well, nearby).

The wind chill (sorry, Ty) is about -38 here today. Any pro-life march would quickly become a death march. Sometimes it's good living in the cold.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Shame on me. Didn't realize I was arguing a different point, which I thought was the one raised.

If the question is: Is this, like Watergate, a political misdeed that transcends the actual criminal acts (if any) committed by the transgressors? Then my answer is, yes, because politics should be played by certain unwritten rules.

But, from the article it sounded like Frist was already hanging Miranda out to dry. If he's on paternity leave, Frist's office would know that.

There is to date no indication that elected officials were involved, though the involvement of their staff members leads to an inevitable suspicion that must be investigated. So, at present, this is not like Watergate.

For what it's worth, I think the Plame afair (which was front page of the NY Times) is more likely to take on broader implications. At the same time, I don't think either scandal will be of Watergate style proportions. Watergate is a pretty tough one to replicate, since it basically rendered an entire generation of Americans irredeemably cynical.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
I think it was the bubble that put our financial house in order. The bubble generated increased tax revenue.

Do you recall Bush I getting heat from his base for raising taxes? Do you recall Clinton getting his first budget passed by one vote in the House of Representatives, without any Republicans? If you think the balanced budget came from the bubble, you really weren't paying attention over the last several years. Read the new memoir by Robert Rubin and Jacob Weisberg.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
The wind chill (sorry, Ty) is about -38 here today.

I'm only hoping you'll be reporting the wind chill in July.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
There is to date no indication that elected officials were involved, though the involvement of their staff members leads to an inevitable suspicion that must be investigated.

Overheard in a Senate bathroom:

Sen. Frist: Y'know, one of my staffers brought me another internal Democratic strategy memo.

Sen. Santorum: Funny, that.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bilmore
Okay, that makes some sense. So, the next issue becomes, are the computer systems linked somehow such that the R staffers had proper access to the system, but weren't "supposed" to have access to those specific docs? Most property crime statute wording won't work in that case - there's no violation of a property right if you access a system to which you have permission for access. And, if there is no specific statutory or rule Senate prohibition on the docs, I'm not seeing where there's a violation.

That's not to say it wasn't a snarky thing to do, of course . . .

The problem arose because it was supposed to be a password protect system and an IT guy screwed up. Some R staffers figured out that they could access documents that the D's thought were accessible only to them.

I don't know whether the staffers in question were 22 year old newbies who thought dropping a dime to Novack would open doors or seasoned 20 year vets who served as the alter ego of their elected official and who already had the ear of folks like Novack. There may not be a legal distinction, but I have a different feeling of culpability depending on who they were.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I'm only hoping you'll be reporting the wind chill in July.

If you get on your motorcycle in 100 degree heat, and go really fast, you get a reverse windchill effect, which can cause heat stroke quickly.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
. Watergate is a pretty tough one to replicate,

Didn't mean to suggest this would ever have teh same ultimate implications: rather, that this is a political "crime"--that is a violation of some unwritten code. What was watergate, breaking and entering? Obviously it mattered for reasons beyond the fact that Nixon (or those directly under him) orchestrated the commission of a misdemeanor.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Do you recall Clinton getting his first budget passed by one vote in the House of Representatives,

Yeah, didn't Al Gore eliminate the deficit?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by bilmore
The wind chill (sorry, Ty) is about -38 here today. Any pro-life march would quickly become a death march. Sometimes it's good living in the cold.

Oh well. Warmest day in DC during the last (and next) week. Lucky them. Traffic now will be a mess for 4 hours.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bilmore
Is there a distinction between having the freedom to deny disclosure of your own docs, and crim charges for disclosing someone else's? (Not sure, but this does seem like two different argument.)

In other words, the Rs should have two freedoms: (i) to deny disclosure of their own documents, and (ii) to be able to disclose their opponents documents without repurcussion?

Come on. Hank and Orin Hatch have it right: this is a despicable act, and steps must be taken. The question I'm interested in seeing adressed is what those steps are.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I don't know whether the staffers in question were 22 year old newbies who thought dropping a dime to Novack would open doors or seasoned 20 year vets who served as the alter ego of their elected official and who already had the ear of folks like Novack.

Don't completely discount the idea that, like Ellsberg, they thought that they were serving justice by bringing to light something that they found outrageous and wrong. I can't quite separate the two events in my mind.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Do you recall Bush I getting heat from his base for raising taxes?

Yes, but if there is no income to tax, raising taxes can't help much. Raising taxes only works in a healthy economy. If you raise them in an unhealthy economy, it further supresses economic growth. So the raising taxes only could be a factor in a healthy economy. The root cause of the deficit disappearance was the economy.

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Do you recall Clinton getting his first budget passed by one vote in the House of Representatives, without any Republicans?

'splain that a bit more 'cuz I am not seeing your point.

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Read the new memoir by Robert Rubin and Jacob Weisberg.

If it is anything like the rest of the articles you post, I'll pass.