Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
On another note, the NYT or maybe the Washington Post or LA Times, I forget, has a very interesting article today about the disbanding of the Iraqi military, and they seem to lay it squarely on Bremer's shoulders (which surprised me a little bit). Hello

I wonder if that is spin from the admin. now that Bremer has gone off the reservation. I've read something before (months ago) from a source within the CPA which blamed the decision to disband the Iraqi Army on the Pantagon, or at least Washington.

S_A_M

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Not Me
Umm, what exactly do you find interesting about it?

That the NYT gave it a good review and is proposing it be aired everywhere.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Bob
So, Social Security is eating the seed corn?

It's a funny week for bilmore to roll out the "seed corn" metaphor, since that's how a lot of bloggers were talking about the Army's decision to deploy the Eleventh Armored Cavalry Regiment to Iraq. This unit is the "OPFOR" at the Fort Irwin National Training Center, and plays the role of enemy forces for exercises with other units. Phil Carter, a veteran and a journalist, quoted a LA Times story on this (see here) and said:

• Deploying the OPFOR is like eating your seed corn. This unit is responsible for training other units and raising their level of expertise and combat readiness. The 11th ACR is being replaced by a National Guard unit. That's like replacing the Dodgers with a high school baseball team. Sure, they can both play baseball and wear the uniform — but one is a whole lot more proficient and experienced at its job. The OPFOR has a reputation as a tough enemy, and that's a good thing because it forces units training at the NTC to become better themselves. By replacing this unit with National Guard troops, the Army has hurt its ability to produce good units for Iraq in the future. Suffice to say, National Guard and active units that go through Fort Irwin aren't going to get the same tough experience they would have with the Blackhorse regiment as OPFOR — and that means they'll be less ready for combat when they get to Iraq. This is a desperation measure, and I think the Army will come to regret it.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
All across the nation's big cities Dems are going into Church's where Reverands are telling their congregations they have to vote Democrat. You're in a swing state- put on an "urban format" radio station. Al Sharpton is on the airwaves at every commercial break telling people they had better vote for Kerry or they'll likely lose everything they have.

So what is the difference?

Are you high? Let me tell you what the priest said last week in husband's church. "i don't want to get into talking about politics, but just for the record, stem cell research is wrong and abortion is wrong and the church is against it. I'm not telling you how to vote, but you should vote for Bush because he is against these things."
In church. On Sunday.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
In church.

Please don't say Catholic. Please don't say Catholic. Please don't say Catholic.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But the decision to disband the Iraqi army seems to have been the biggest single blunder made in the whole campaign. I'm not particularly interested in debate the subjective intentions of whoever it was that made that choice, because whatever they may have been thinking, they royally fucked up, and a lot of Americans and Iraqis*are dead as a result. In most places, if you fuck up something on this order, you lose your job.


* and Poles.

Don't forget all those Marshall Islanders.*

*Is this a country or a hockey team?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I wonder if that is spin from the admin. now that Bremer has gone off the reservation. I've read something before (months ago) from a source within the CPA which blamed the decision to disband the Iraqi Army on the Pantagon, or at least Washington.

S_A_M

I wonder myself, but its not like it absolves the administration if it is. He was still their guy. And, of course, it simply would not surprise me if this insanity came from the civilians at the top of the Pentagon.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
This is a cool analogizing experience at face. Substantively, this is total crap.

Did you really say this?

Yes. I don't think it is _total_ crap. Give me a break, I was trying to encapsulate every political philosophy know to man in a two sentence analogy. It is obviously imprecise and overly simplistic.

Also, that statement had several subparts, with which do you disagree? Also, remember the characteristics of mirror images -- its not that they are identical, its that the picture is backwards/opposite.

Remember this was in the context of a discussion with Hello about fascism as a poltical philosophy, and its distinctions from communism and socialism as philosophies (not about the real world examples of attempts to implement modified versions of those theories.)

S_A_M

[edited to remove random words at the end.]

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Please don't say Catholic. Please don't say Catholic. Please don't say Catholic.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, since I am not a Catholic, but isn't that the only church that calls their guys priests? Aren't the rest reverends or pastors or something?

Yes CATHOLIC CHURCH. Politics in church.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I think he's describing the public perception of the far right and far left, and you (like I) are thinking of the actual right and left. The characterizations of the far right have gotten so out of hand that people end up calling National Socialists a part of the right. Its a cute way of disassociating them from the left in the public mind, but its only Socialism with hate thrown in. And hate ain't a characteristic of the Right.

Actually I was discussing them as political theories and philosophies, without reference to any particular regime.

Fascism is not coterminous with National Socialism, and we're not talking about your "Right."

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Kansas, Dorothy.

eta: My bad. Evolution can now be taught in Kansas.

This article has a chart you might find helpful in selecting your next residence.

http://www.infidels.org/activist/state/evolution.shtml

okay so near here its melvindale, that hotbed of conservatism. You know who's the Congressman there? John Conyers. Conyers is not one of the Dems voting for Bush by the way. Obviously this is not a party line issue.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
well what if he was killed by one of the people that youse guys made us let go from Gitmo

I can't understand for the life of me why you keep bitching at _us_ for that Hank. It was your Supreme Court, after all, and your military, that let him go.

S_A_M

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Excuse me if I'm wrong, since I am not a Catholic, but isn't that the only church that calls their guys priests? Aren't the rest reverends or pastors or something?

Yes CATHOLIC CHURCH. Politics in church.

Anglican has priests. Or so they did when I last went to church.

Also there are priests and priestesses of Wicca, but I'm fairly certain that your husband does not attend a Wiccan church.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
If you could state, maintain and defend a coherent position to save your life, you could try selling it to someone. I'm pretty sure the religious faith of your euthanized cat just doesn't work.

Interesting, now, address the position raised:

"I am personally afraid because, well, contrary to my persona here (which derives from hating my work), I actually love my life. I don't want it to end, so my fear, which may be unique, is not really so much fear as anger at having to end the party. I've actually been pretty lucky in life so far. I like this gig. So my fear is that all I know and dig will end.

I have no fear at all of a vengeful god. None. Nada, as you say. You fear my lack of fear because people who don't live in little moral boxes like the one you've built for yourself challenge your raison d'etre. You're a judgmental little man. You don't like having someone bend your beliefs. Its obvious from your debate tactics, where you say things like "There could be no fear of anything but a vengeful god," even though thats clearly not true. Thats "putting the rabbit in the hat" and its the surest sign that the opponent has no argument. I threaten you because I don't play your game. Thats why you keep writing things like "You'll come back to mass" to fuck with me. Unconsciously, you show your hand. You're so rigidly tied to your beliefs that you can't even discuss the possibilty that they might illogical and futile.

You are, like the God Guns and Gays contingent, a "true believer". You just like to call yourself a libertarian because you know this board leans a tad liberal and you want to sustain som intellectual cachet. But I know what you are, and I'm hardly the smartest person on these boards... So consider just how transparent you are to the rest."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Are you high? Let me tell you what the priest said last week in husband's church. "i don't want to get into talking about politics, but just for the record, stem cell research is wrong and abortion is wrong and the church is against it. I'm not telling you how to vote, but you should vote for Bush because he is against these things."
In church. On Sunday.

and I'm sure that's different from Clergy, like big Al, saying everyone who listens to him better vote for Kerry, and its different from an inner city baptist reverand saying you better vote for Kerry, but please explain why its different.

Are you high?

just so we're clear, these personal attacks may serve you well on the FB, but thet have no place here. We come here for civil discourse, not undeserved slurs.