A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Singapore, Japan, South Korea all are Democratic societies. The people choose the government.

Lee Kuan Yew disagrees. "Dictator Lee is the man who said of elections, 'The government will not be blackmailed by the people.'"

That's from the Safire thing I linked earlier.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Spanky
Actually the brothels in Thailand are mostly full of girls from Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. Let see if you can guess what the common denominator among these three countries is.

Shoot. Let me think..... wait- maybe- Slave- did Kerry ever claim that he fought in Laos?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Fine. Redact the word "back" from my previous statement.

So Palestinians from other countries (or whose parents came from other countries) should be forcibly sent to Jordan. (eta: That would a short trip for them, but a big step for democracy in the Middle East, eh?) Do you also think that Jews from other countries should be forcibly sent to Israel?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's not consistent with any of the reports I've read, but I'm sure you know better.

What reports where? I first went to Thailand in 1989 and have been there every couple of years since. The change has been unbelievable. Bangkok now has the worst traffic jams in the World. Something like seventy percent of thai families have TV sets. The middle class has exploded. The prostitutes all over Asia come from the three countries I mentioned. There are some from Burma, but not as many, because it is harder for the people to get out. The refugee problems from Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam into Thailand are huge. The US government has been putting pressure on the Thai government to stop the sex trade (and send the girls back to their home countrys), but the Thai government has been arguing that these girls are better of in brothels than they would be in their home countries.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Spanky
I used to think until I went there and met the people. They think the United State is a cess pool and the PAP has brought them unparralleled prosperity and kept them from becoming a cess pool like the United States. They just don't think individual rights are that important. Every time I went there I could not help myself. I kept asking people, how can you accept a government like this? It was like being in the Stepford Wives.

While surely teh degree of differences in opinion narrow as a society becomes richer, I cannot believe, and based on my experience, do not believe, that all Singaporeans think alike. Surely some of them would vote to allow chewing gum without a prescription.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Do you also think that Jews from other countries should be forcibly sent to Israel?

You mean to tell me they weren't forced to flee Egypt? Syria?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
How do you conclude that causation is not the opposite?

Because India has had a full blown democracy since the end of WWII but had a socialist economy ever since then. It just started opening up in 1992 but still has a long way to go. For the authoritarian governments that instituted free market reforms, they have now all gone democratic and are prospersous. Democracys, that don't have free markets, and therefore, prosperity, also tend to fall back into dictatorships. Look at Venezuela.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You mean to tell me they weren't forced to flee Egypt? Syria?

You mean to tell me Palestinians weren't forced to flee Israel?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
While surely teh degree of differences in opinion narrow as a society becomes richer, I cannot believe, and based on my experience, do not believe, that all Singaporeans think alike. Surely some of them would vote to allow chewing gum without a prescription.

I am sure there are, but I never met any. Every once in a while a politician will start bitching about the governments restrictive policies but they never gain widespread support.

BTW: I cite a whole mess of authoritarian government that instituted free market reforms and then turned into stable democracies and the only one you guys focus on is Singapore. What about Spain, Portugal, Chile, South Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Taiwan etc.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
You mean to tell me Palestinians weren't forced to flee Israel?

You mean to tell me that Israel doesn't allow Palestinians to live and work within its borders? You mean to tell me that the surrounding countries afford similar rights to Jews/Israelis ?

We can do this all fucking day, but it will get boring

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You mean to tell me that Israel doesn't allow Palestinians to live and work within its borders? You mean to tell me that the surrounding countries afford similar rights to Jews/Israelis ?

We can do this all fucking day, but it will get boring

I'm not the one saying the people living in Lebanon who are of Palestinian descent should be denied equal voting rights there and moved to Jordan. I drew the parallel because anyone who suggested the same thing about Jews in other countries would be labeled an anti-Semite pretty quickly. Regardless of how Israel treats Palestinian Israelis, it can't justify what you are suggesting for the refugees in Lebanon.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You mean to tell me that Israel doesn't allow Palestinians to live and work within its borders? You mean to tell me that the surrounding countries afford similar rights to Jews/Israelis ?

We can do this all fucking day, but it will get boring

Sorry to support the dinasour, but during the 1948 war, I think it was an Irgun gang, exterminated an entire Palestinian village. The word got out and 90% of the palestinians in what is Israel proper fled and have never been allowed to return. The small numbers that stayed do enjoy rights as Israeli citizens. However, their relatives cannot move to Isreal (even the ones that fled) where any jewish isreali's family can move into Israel.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Sorry to support the dinasour, but during the 1948 war, I think it was an Irgun gang, exterminated an entire Palestinian village. The word got out and 90% of the palestinians in what is Israel proper fled and have never been allowed to return. The small numbers that stayed do enjoy rights as Israeli citizens. However, their relatives cannot move to Isreal (even the ones that fled) where any jewish isreali's family can move into Israel.

Slave supports the dinosaur, too, sometimes with Mexican food.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Slave supports the dinosaur, too, sometimes with Mexican food.

He has never given me any mexican food

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I'm not the one saying the people living in Lebanon who are of Palestinian descent should be denied equal voting rights there and moved to Jordan. I drew the parallel because anyone who suggested the same thing about Jews in other countries would be labeled an anti-Semite pretty quickly. Regardless of how Israel treats Palestinian Israelis, it can't justify what you are suggesting for the refugees in Lebanon.

1) I pointed out that a large number of the anti-US marchers yesterday in Beirut were Palestinian refugees. I neither argued for or against their right to the Lebanese franchise.

2) I have stated on numerous occasions that many of these "Palestinian" arabs should perhaps relocate to Jordan, rather than wallow away in refugee camps, as this was - in overly simplistic terms - the country that was established for them.

3) I don't know exactly what you think I am otherwise "suggesting"