Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Ah, the nemeses of the reality-based community. It will be a long, drawn out epic battle, and I fear, after all the blood has been shed, no one will be able to declare victory.

polls? did you say polls?



Bush up 4 in Michigan? This is a lie. there's no way he wins Michigan, but here is a Newspaper reporting its "poll."

What are facts?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Bullshit. Here's some facts

Yes, but those are entirely different facts than those posted, so you are changing the subject. The definition of a "lawyer trick". You do not wish to discuss the painful truth that you have allied yourself with the party of proud and determined ignorance.

Like the man said, "We are an Empire, and we will make a new reality", right, Hank?

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Our ally was selling weapons to Iraq to shoot down our planes. John Kerry wants us to be more sensitive to what that ally wants us to do. Ty and his crew will parse, and twist and avoid this rather shocking discovery. We are near end times Sebastian. You must choose.

You are not simple-minded, but you surely are scared.

[eta: Plus, Hank, none of this is new information. Plus, wanna know how many Russian weapons are pointed at our soldiers every day? ]

S_A_M

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Bullshit. Here's some facts


Our ally was selling weapons to Iraq to shoot down our planes. John Kerry wants us to be more sensitive to what that ally wants us to do. Ty and his crew will parse, and twist and avoid this rather shocking discovery. We are near end times Sebastian. You must choose.

Hank -

There's a difference between supporting Bush for the articulate reasons you just noted and supporting Bush just because you think he's "a decent honorable god fearing man", even though you know nothing of his policies.

Now, substantively, this "story" you've cited is a non-event. We knew that both Russia and the French were selling all sorts of things to Iraq before the war. Months before we attacked, we discovered that not only were the Iraqis using Russian missile technology, there were actually Russian consultants in Iraq helping them operate it. I don't see you clamoring for Putin's head.

And contrary to your mischaracterization, Iraq was not "our enemy" at the time we attacked them. They never attacked us. Ever. They attacked Kuwait. We're not Kuwait. Iraq's only crime was being the easiest country in the middle east we could justify toppling at the time we invaded.

Its not as simple as the black and white "choice" you offer. That is exactly the sort of simple resolution the people I just derided want. They want it simple. God forbid they have to actually understand something somplicated, and God forbid they learn that there really is no good vs. evil in foreign relations - that we're all guilty of crimes. God forbid they open a book and dicsover that some of our own mis-steps led to this nadir. We're never wrong. Evil has lain down the gauntlet. Freedom is on the march! USA! USA! USA!

Your story is a non-event,
SD

[Replaced_Texan]

Kerry's name left off of absentee ballots in Ohio

This is going to be an ugly, ugly two weeks.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Kerry's name left off of absentee ballots in Ohio

Who is Kerry and why should he have been on the ballot?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
And a second. And a third....

Based on who I can link you to in the past this must mean that (i) you're changing your vote or (ii) it's only a matter of time until you fuck her.

TM

[dtb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
polls? did you say polls?



Bush up 4 in Michigan? This is a lie. there's no way he wins Michigan, but here is a Newspaper reporting its "poll."

What are facts?

You can't be serious. A Fox News poll? Right. Let's see what the Kerry campaign poll figures show!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Now, substantively, this "story" you've cited is a non-event. We knew that both Russia and the French were selling all sorts of things to Iraq before the war. Months before we attacked, we discovered that not only were the Iraqis using Russian missile technology, there were actually Russian consultants in Iraq helping them operate it. I don't see you clamoring for Putin's head.

And contrary to your mischaracterization, Iraq was not "our enemy" at the time we attacked them.

We had jets flying patrols over a no fly zone that were repeatedly shot at, it turns out by French supplied air defense. I pass on the cheap joke about why none were hit. The air defense capabilities were expressly to defend against US and UK jets. Simple fact. Accept it, don't turn into your relatives.

Its not as simple as the black and white "choice" you offer. That is exactly the sort of simple resolution the people I just derided want. They want it simple. God forbid they have to actually understand something somplicated, and God forbid they learn that there really is no good vs. evil in foreign relations - that we're all guilty of crimes. God forbid they open a book and dicsover that some of our own mis-steps led to this nadir. We're never wrong. Evil has lain down the gauntlet. Freedom is on the march! USA! USA! USA!

Your story is a non-event,
SD

My point wasn't to say that your relatives are smart people and that you should listen to them. My point was that the "debate" from either side has no tie to the facts. I guarentee Ty and them will call bullshit and distinguish the above on some grounds. I can't predict how yet, but he'll take the position that the oil-for-food scandal is nothing, and that the UN is a-okay.

Understand, a man who wants to be President wants us to be more mindful of the UN. Put aside for a moment that 1/3 of the countries in the UN are Islamic countries that might have a somewhat different view of what's right, put aside the fact that the main export of the UN is vetoed sanctions against Israel, the UN was facilitating selling air defense to Iraq so that Iraq could shoot at jets carried out UN-approved missions over Iraq. To the extent that's a non-event, its time for some of you people to take one long-assed look in the mirror.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Who is Kerry and why should he have been on the ballot?

Well, in some places it doesn't really matter, because if you choose him, the touch screen machine will choose the other guy for you.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by dtb
You can't be serious. A Fox News poll? Right. Let's see what the Kerry campaign poll figures show!

or dear, that was my point. I honestly know the Detroit News poll is BS. I was just trying to say it is possible to have all sorts of facts be true....

And it wasn't a Fox poll, Fox was just reporting it. Fox said the RedSox won- is that true?

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Who is Kerry and why should he have been on the ballot?

Am I missing some subtle humor here?

I. Don't. Get It.

aV

[dtb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
or dear, that was my point. I honestly know the Detroit News poll is BS. I was just trying to say it was....

And it wasn't a Fox poll, Fox was just reporting it. Fox said the RedSox won- is that true?

RedSox SchmedSox. The wild card rule was eliminated for the AL, so, no; the Yankees won. Didn't you read that in the paper?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Kerry's name left off of absentee ballots in Ohio

This is going to be an ugly, ugly two weeks.

Some parts are fun!

"I knew enough to see something was wrong," said the voter, who asked not to be identified. "But you wonder whether others maybe didn't notice it before they sent their ballots back."

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I'd nail her in a heartbeat.

Hmmmm. That's a problem. I was going to suggest that if you ever get a chance to be with her that you should think about baseball. But that is clearly no longer a solution to your problem (unless she's into hate-fucks).

TM

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by andViolins
Am I missing some subtle humor here?

I. Don't. Get It.

aV

Hard to say. What do you think the comment meant?