Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

You have to give the Europeans credit for their ability and desire to have drinks during the workday. This country sucks with the whole frowning upon a beer at lunch...what does the U.S. have against booze?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/06/of....ap/index.html

[Spree: Danish courts rule beer breaks are OK as long as the breaks are unpaid]

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You are full of shit. You will eat in silence while occassionally glaring at the kids and their parents. You might sigh audibly, to show your disdain and may even pump yourself up enough to complain to the hostess on the way out, but you won't be demanding anything from anybody.

TM

On the contrary. While I will tend to give a commiserating glance at a freaked-out parent of a monster on a noisy setting like a street or supermarket, I routinely ask parents of children at movies and restaurants to please remove them while they're so clearly upset, as I can't hear/enjoy the film or my conversation.

Why you think my rehabbed-MJ-addiction and fondness for accessories makes me a wuss is beyond me, as they're not incompatible. You underestimate both my extremely foul temper and loathing of indulgent morons who raise their kids to act like pigs.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
It's okay for their kids to idolize him, okay for their wives to lust after him, okay to want to be like him.
TM

If ANY woman lusts after him, it'd better be for his money & fame b/c he is a complete dork. When he talks, he sounds like Eddie Murphy making fun of white people.

Jordan I can understand though.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
It's ... okay for their wives to lust after him. ... And he has quite consciously followed in Jordan's image conscious footsteps, avoiding all controversial topics and basically having no opinion on anything to achieve this status, which I think we can agree, helps sell product.

TM

It might be okay for their wives to lust after him, but do you really think any of them do? He's attractive, but lust-inspiring? Uh, no -- first, he's a golfer (and wears golfer's clothes); second, as you point out, he basically has no opinion on anything; third, he was a shill for Oldsmobuick until he got his H2; and fourth, he got that H2 .

r(and of course, he seems too nice)p

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I suspect that Tiger is thoroughly enjoying his "Jordan" status, meaning that as far as most white people are concerned, he is such a huge star that he is no longer seen as a color. People who otherwise wouldn't associate with or would be a-feared of black people view Jordan and probably Tiger as a phenomenon. It's okay for their kids to idolize him, okay for their wives to lust after him, okay to want to be like him. He is on another level. And he has quite consciously followed in Jordan's image conscious footsteps, avoiding all controversial topics and basically having no opinion on anything to achieve this status, which I think we can agree, helps sell product.

In short, Tiger may have seen racism in the past, but he most likely doesn't see it (much) anymore.

TM

I think OJ summed it up nicely. "I'm not black, I'm OJ"

Here's to hoping AI does a Neil Diamond night this week. Clay can sing Love on the Rocks and You Dont Bring Me Flowers, Josh can sing Coming to America (today!) and Kentucky Woman and Ruben can sing Girl, You'll be a woman soon and Sweet Caroline or Forever In Blue Jeans or Iam I said or antying he wants. It would complete the 70s FM that my parents made me listen to growing up trilogy with Sedaka and BGs

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I think OJ summed it up nicely. "I'm not black, I'm OJ"

I assume that quote was pre-murder trial. OJ found it decidedly convenient to be black while that little unpleasantness was going on.

Here's to hoping AI does a Neil Diamond night this week. Clay can sing Love on the Rocks and You Dont Bring Me Flowers, Josh can sing Coming to America (today!) and Kentucky Woman and Ruben can sing Girl, You'll be a woman soon and Sweet Caroline or Forever In Blue Jeans or Iam I said or antying he wants. It would complete the 70s FM that my parents made me listen to growing up trilogy with Sedaka and BGs

Kill me now.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by purse junkie
You underestimate both my extremely foul temper and loathing of indulgent morons who raise their kids to act like pigs.

Parents did a great job on YOU, huh? Or are patience, acceptance, and selflessness more of a "nature" than a "nurture" thing?

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You are full of shit. You will eat in silence while occassionally glaring at the kids and their parents. You might sigh audibly, to show your disdain and may even pump yourself up enough to complain to the hostess on the way out, but you won't be demanding anything from anybody.

I dunno. I've complained to staff mid-meal, and I've asked parents to "please keep your voices down, we're trying to have a conversation," as I would for any adult who is screaming at the next table. And, one thing I've found, people being sheep, is that once one person complains, a bunch of others discover themselves willing to follow suit, with increasing assertiveness. I have indeed seen families with bad children thrown out of restaurants, though only about 3 times. (Twice it was at a pretty nice place, but once it was at a road side diner - the waitress finally complained and the cook came out with a meat cleaver (!) to kick them out.)

I've also had loud passive-aggressive conversations with the Mr. about how poorly behaved children are the result of genetic inferiority and other miscellaneous ill-breeding, and are evidence that some people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce at all because of their evident inadequacy as parental material, and isn't it a pity that they can't be found out until it is too late and they have already destroyed their own lives, the lives of their monstrous deficient offspring and the evening of those dining nearby, and how such children should be removed from their parents and put to work on farms in the hopes of rehabilitation from the damage their parents have inflicted on them, or if not rehabilitated at least they'll cease to be an unwanted burden on the rest of society by annoying them in restaurants until they are old enough to be rejected by all passable members of the opposite sex due to their bad manners and are relegated to living their lives alone and hated by all of humanity, cursing the day they were born to such uncaring, inadequate parents.

Actually, when I get going, devising new and byzantine tortures for poorly behaved children and appropriate punishments for their parents, I can put the Mr. into spasms of laughter, and we can have quite a good time notwithstanding the spazing kids.
I have never seen the "parents pay" route tried, though. I don't think it would work, but I'd love to see it tried.

But ultimately I'm pretty patient - I know full well that kiddie behavior has to be test-driven in public, and I give parents who are obviously trying to modify the kids behavior a long time to get their lessons in before I think they just need to remove the offensive kids entirely. Everyone benefits from kids learning good public manners, and therefore everyone in society as a whole needs to be supportive of those test-runs and the screw-ups that inevitably happen.

Incidentally, for girls, tea at the Pierre is a SUPER "nice-adult-place" test-run, because the whole thing is so princessy that it inspires them to act princessy and otherwise put on a good show.

I took my two sons (5 years and 15 months) for breakfast to a very casual restaurant. We have been there many times before and have become friendly with the family that owns/runs the restaurant. One morning, after breakfast, I was reading the paper and my eldest son was running around as he and other children had done in the past. The owners are very family-oriented, know the kids names, give them treats, etc. A man dining by himself approached me and angrily told me to calm my child. I had never seen him at the restaurant. As I had implicit approval from the owners and this guy was acting like an asshole, I told him not to worry about it and go back and eat his breakfast. After muttering unintelligibles, he retreated back to reading his paper. I immediately thought the better course of action was not to comment to him, but tell him to take it up with management. Interestingly, as I was paying my bill, I found out that, before approaching me, he did complain to management only to be offered a table in the next room which old bastard declined. After thinking about it, it seems to me that he must have a burr under his saddle about something else than my child. I would be interested in alternative responses especially given the fact that my child had acted similarly in the past and chastising him for his actions would give him mixed signals.

P.S. posted here since children's actions were being discussed despite the fact that its not the lawyers w/ kids board.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by bilmore
Parents did a great job on YOU, huh? Or are patience, acceptance, and selflessness more of a "nature" than a "nurture" thing?

It's absolutely my nature--my idol as a toddler was Oscar the Grouch. The 'nurture' part was where I was taught not to take it out on other people, unless it's warranted, and even then as politely as possible.

p(great mom)j

[Sparklehorse]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Incidentally, for girls, tea at the Pierre is a SUPER "nice-adult-place" test-run, because the whole thing is so princessy that it inspires them to act princessy and otherwise put on a good show.

This makes me think of my good friend's 11 year old twin girls who were recently taken for high tea at the Ritz by an English solicitor. They were perfect angels for tea but were monsters as soon as they left, well into the next day.

I agree with you about the test driving. Some of my tolerance depends on the time and place. Test drives should take place in, say, family-style places or casual Chinese restaurants and not a white table-clothed swanky locale on a Saturday night.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by spookyfish
I assume that quote was pre-murder trial. OJ found it decidedly convenient to be black while that little unpleasantness was going on.

I love it. His guilt notwithstanding, are you kidding?

One of the main reasons why the trial was so huge was because a black man killed an attractive white woman. As soon as he was under suspicion, he was black.

I forget which magazine it was, but the mug shot of him was darkened on the cover to make him darker and more menacing (read: blacker).

One of the main detectives in the case seemed pretty racist. And at the very least had no problem using "nigger" when the need hit him.

When the verdict came down, white people were weeping in the fucking streets for Christsakes. Do these same people even pay attention when a black woman is murdered and someone gets away with it? I didn't see a similar reaction to that woman who drowned her two kids and blamed it on some black guy.

The press either consciously tried to polarize the country on race lines or fanned the flames of our natural polarization.

I think it sucks that he turned his back on the black community when he made it and then reached out to us when he was in trouble, but he's not the only one who found it convenient to make him as black as possible.

TM

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall I think it sucks that he turned his back on the black community when he made it and then reached out to us when he was in trouble,

Wasn't this Spooky's point?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Sparklehorse

I agree with you about the test driving. Some of my tolerance depends on the time and place. Test drives should take place in, say, family-style places or casual Chinese restaurants and not a white table-clothed swanky locale on a Saturday night.

and test-drive meals should (a) include behavior proper to an "adult" restaurant (no, not Hooters) and (b) continue until the kids perform satisfactorily (i.e., if you have taken the kids to casual places and they've run around, perhaps they aren't yet ready to go to the swanky place). I think it can be difficult for kids to differentiate between restaurants -- so if they only have experience of restaurants in which it's OK to run around etc. etc., they aren't going to know how to behave in the "adult" restaurant.

I am actually in favor of the asking parents of uncontrolled kids to foot the bill for dinner (or at least of the extra bottle of wine consumed), unless you have assumed the risk by eating in a family-style or extremely casual restaurant.

f(come to think of it, the fact that I haven't been bugged by kids for a LONG TIME in restaurants probably indicates I'm spending way too much on eating out)b

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I love it. His guilt notwithstanding, are you kidding?

One of the main reasons why the trial was so huge was because a black man killed an attractive white woman. As soon as he was under suspicion, he was black.

I forget which magazine it was, but the mug shot of him was darkened on the cover to make him darker and more menacing (read: blacker).

One of the main detectives in the case seemed pretty racist. And at the very least had no problem using "nigger" when the need hit him.

When the verdict came down, white people were weeping in the fucking streets for Christsakes. Do these same people even pay attention when a black woman is murdered and someone gets away with it? I didn't see a similar reaction to that woman who drowned her two kids and blamed it on some black guy.

The press either consciously tried to polarize the country on race lines or fanned the flames of our natural polarization.

I think it sucks that he turned his back on the black community when he made it and then reached out to us when he was in trouble, but he's not the only one who found it convenient to make him as black as possible.

TM

I'm not saying that there was no race issue involved, but I think the publicity had a lot to do with his being a celebrity and perhaps a feeling that he got off just because he could afford to hire fancy lawyers.

No, there isn't a ton of publicity when someone gets off after killing a black woman -- but there also isn't generally a lot of publicity when a (non-famous) black man gets off after killing a (non-famous) white woman.