Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
I meant that it seems like he may have conveniently forgotten that he was at the November meeting because he did remember the talk about killing US Senators and wanted to conveniently forget that he had ever attended.

Before you chastize me for saying the Kerry story sounds fishy, go back and reread your posts about the GWB national guard service records.

(1) No one is suggesting that he was party to the conversations about the talk of assassinations.

(2) I can't remember what meetings I attended 30 years ago either.

(3) Either point me to my posts (the search function is on the bar of buttons at the top of the page) or at least try to tell me what I said about Bush that relates to this in some fashion.

Kerry was hanging out with people who used to wear uniforms, but he didn't remember he was. Bush was not hanging out with people who still wore uniforms, but he remembers that he was. There's no good reason for the government to have been keeping track of what Kerry was doing, but they were and have released the records. There was every reason for the government to have been keeping track of what Bush was doing, and doubtless they were, but there are lots of records they haven't released.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by bilmore

[Defending Bush's attack on Iraq] has everything to do with looking at root causes and environmental fostering of terrorism. You disagree.

If Bush had attacked Iran, instead of Iraq, I'd agree. However, he didn't. He attacked Iraq with dubious evidence. The Senate democrats are equally to blame though; those chickenshits sat around with their thumbs up their ass rather than raising holy hell. If they had raised hell, Bush never would've mustered the votes to invade Iraq. The Senate wouldn't support an invasion because of human rights violations, mass graves, or whatever. Stopping that shit just isn't worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

Now, stopping Iran is another matter. Those mullahs are actively seeking nuclear weapons. And I'll be damned if you can trust the hard liners running Iran.

If you want Bush's motivation, I say it was money for Cheney's buddies at Halliburton, Bush's buddies in oil companies, and the neoconservatives' wet dream that they can remake the entire middle east as a democracy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
If you want Bush's motivation, I say it was money for Cheney's buddies at Halliburton, Bush's buddies in oil companies, and the neoconservatives' wet dream that they can remake the entire middle east as a democracy.

Suggesting that Bush was motivated by the dream on making money for Halliburton is silly. Almost as silly as the dream that we can remake the entire Middle East as a democracy.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop

Suggesting that Bush was motivated by the dream on making money for Halliburton is silly. Almost as silly as the dream that we can remake the entire Middle East as a democracy.

Sure, Bush is a Woodrow-Wilson-esqe idealist pursuing theoretical flights of fancy and indulging that nonsense was the prime motivation. However, denying a desire to help Bush-co's buddies in the energy and military industries is plain naive.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Sure, Bush is a Woodrow-Wilson-esqe idealist pursuing theoretical flights of fancy and indulging that nonsense was the prime motivation. However, denying a desire to help Bush-co's buddies in the energy and military industries is plain naive.

Like Woodrow Wilson, but Southern Baptist. I really don't think Bush is motivated by money, for himself or his friends, but he likes the power that he gets when he finds ways to enrich his rich buddies.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Hey, Bilmore -- were you at this meeting, too?

This chapter is overblown and means nothing.

Kerry was part of the anti-war movement back then. That was the (under forty) mainstream.

Everybody was threatening the government.

I was very proud when I realized that I had a fibee file. So was Kerry, I suspect. For people my age, this is as important as "did you inhale?"

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
(2) I can't remember what meetings I attended 30 years ago either.

Cub scouts, little boy. Cub scouts.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city If you want Bush's motivation, I say it was money for Cheney's buddies at Halliburton, Bush's buddies in oil companies, and the neoconservatives' wet dream that they can remake the entire middle east as a democracy.

So, strategically, you agree, but tactically, you would have chosen different?

Stand in line, boy. You're in the camp, but you want to pee in a different corner.

(You have to know the movie to understand this.)

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by bilmore

So, strategically, you agree [with Bush's military agenda], but tactically, you would have chosen different?

No, No I don't. Bush's strategy of invasions to promote democracy is idiotic. I supported a strike to eliminate the Taliban. I'd also support strikes in Iran and elsewhere to destroy nuclear facilities and assassinate terrorists. But war on Iran, Iraq, &c is plain stupid -- it looks as if conservatives have found a way to waste taxpayers money faster than the democrats.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Like Woodrow Wilson, but Southern Baptist. I really don't think Bush is motivated by money, for himself or his friends, but he likes the power that he gets when he finds ways to enrich his rich buddies.

If i truly believed a president was doing something so despicable i would be rioting in the streets/stealing socks in mexico/aztec dancing. that you are not Ty, shows you are not a man of conviction. I put it to you Ty, if you stand idly by while such wrong occurs in something as important as the country your children are being raised in, how can the administration here rely upon you to take action when necessary for the good of the PB. J'acusseTy. J'acusse.

Slave it is time to ask for Ty's resignation.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by bilmore



No, No I don't. Bush's strategy of invasions to promote democracy is idiotic. I supported a strike to eliminate the Taliban. I'd also support strikes in Iran and elsewhere to destroy nuclear facilities and assassinate terrorists. But war on Iran, Iraq, &c is plain stupid -- it looks as if conservatives have found a way to waste taxpayers money faster than the democrats.

Look, you want to argue the points, at least speak intelligently. Bush's (sorry, Rummy's and Cheney's and Wolfy's) strategy is brilliant. The ultimate conflict here is, Islamicism v. Us. We're "Us". The strategy of invasion finally takes the fight to the peole who promise to bring the fight to us. We should wait until their time? That's stupid. Take the damn jungle first, especially when they claim the jungle first. You want to run a reactive war? You lose. We've done that. We can just wait for the medivacs, I suppose, and claim bodycounts . . . .

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
This chapter is overblown and means nothing.

Kerry was part of the anti-war movement back then. That was the (under forty) mainstream.

Everybody was threatening the government.

I was very proud when I realized that I had a fibee file. So was Kerry, I suspect. For people my age, this is as important as "did you inhale?"

Well, my point isn't that he was at the meeting but rather that he conveniently forgot it. Yet was perfectly able to remember the exact date in July he supposedly withdrew from the organization. Yet there are FBI records showing him at the meeting in November.

I just don't buy that he forgot being at the meeting in November. People were talking about murdering US Senators and he tendered his resignation from the group after that meeting. In November. But before the FBI records came to light, he was claiming a perfect memory of resigning in July.

I think it is likely that he well remembered the November meeting (given the crazy talk going on at the meeting and that it prompted his resignation) and now in his older/wiser state, didn't want to be associated with that. So he claimed he wasn't even a part of the organization in November because he resigned in July.

Too bad the FBI was tailing him or it would have worked fine.

It is not the crime that I am worried about. It is the cover-up. Why not just say what you said - hey look, it was the 60's and the way to get hot chicks was to be anti-government. So I was there. But I resigned right after I heard the people talking about killing senators.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me It is not the crime that I am worried about. It is the cover-up. Why not just say what you said - hey look, it was the 60's and the way to get hot chicks was to be anti-government. So I was there. But I resigned right after I heard the people talking about killing senators.

He was there. He doesn't want to acknowledge it because he was such a fucking weenie. To the resolution " we're the revolution", his answer was, we need to study this more.

Some things don't change.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
(1) No one is suggesting that he was party to the conversations about the talk of assassinations.

I think some people are; they are just not claiming that he agreed with the plan. They are claiming he heard these conversations and then promptly ended his association with the group.

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
(2) I can't remember what meetings I attended 30 years ago either.

As Bilmore indicated, no one can remember a cub scout meeting when they are 5 years old. However, grown men, indeed decorated vietnam war veterans turned anti-war activists, would be far more likely to remember a meeting in which someone said "hey lets kill US Senators" and which prompted him to resign from the group.

He claimed he remembered resigning from the group in July (which was a few months before the meeting). It is just that he forgot attending the November meeting. Seems like he can remember things he wants to "remember" that happened 30 years ago.

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
(3) Either point me to my posts (the search function is on the bar of buttons at the top of the page) or at least try to tell me what I said about Bush that relates to this in some fashion.

So when I ask you "cite please" you tell me to research it myself but I am supposed to do your research for you?*

*said to the tune of "I know you are but what am I"?

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop Bush was not hanging out with people who still wore uniforms, but he remembers that he was. There's no good reason for the government to have been keeping track of what Kerry was doing, but they were and have released the records. There was every reason for the government to have been keeping track of what Bush was doing, and doubtless they were, but there are lots of records they haven't released.

Ok, see now neither one of us has to find your old posts. You are clearly implying something fishy about Bush's national guard service right here and now.

It is my understanding that all the records have been released and the records show he missed some weekends but made them up (which apparently is commonplace in the guard). If you are saying they haven't released all the records, then cite please.*

*never mind, you never produce.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
He was there. He doesn't want to acknowledge it because he was such a fucking weenie. To the resolution " we're the revolution", his answer was, we need to study this more.

Some things don't change.

That is all my point was. He was there but doesn't now want to admit it so he is claiming he resigned in July when he knows he was there.

It makes no sense to do these kinds of things. I would have more respect for him if he just said, I was there, there was crazy talk going on , so I said bye-bye peeps, I don't want to be associated with you anymore.