Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Wait just a minute, don't be hasty.

Rantisi just withdrew the: "We're going to attack the U.S." threats that Hamas had issued earlier. "Hey guys, just kidding! No hard feelings?"

S_A_M

Exactly. As long as they stick with, "Hey we're just here to kill the [strike] JEWS [/strike] ZIONISTS" then they will be A-OK.

aV

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Not Me
I think the main point of his testimony was that the lack of a response to the USS Cole bombing emboldened AQ.

Interesting thing I read in the transcripts of yesterday's testimony was that the Commission believes that the link between OBL and the Cole attack was not established until Bush took office. The Bush team's response was as follows:

Deputy National Security Advisor Steven Hadley told us that tit for that, military options were so inadequate that they might have emboldened Al Qaida. He said the Bush administration's response to the Cole would be a new, more aggressive strategy against Al Qaida. Pentagon officials, including Vice Admiral Scott Fry and Undersecretary Slocombe, told us they cautioned that the military response options were limited. Bin Laden continued to be elusive. They were still skeptical that hitting inexpensive and rudimentary training camps with costly missiles would do much good. The new team at the Pentagon did not push for a response for the Cole, according to Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, his deputy.

Please note that I don't absolve the Clinton admin for their part in the lack of a response.

But to follow up on Atticus's point, how exactly does the lack of a response to the Cole bombing get this out of Rumsfeld's kitchen?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Brad DeLong has been reading Clarke's book, and says:

• If there is one thing clear from reading Against All Enemies, it is that Clarke is f***ing apeshit. I've never seen anyone so apeshit. Clarke had thought he was leading a successful counterterrorism effort against al Qaeda, and then at the start of 2001 these idiot neocon Cold Warriors came in and messed everything up with bureaucratic bull****. Because the Bush administration blocked his plans, September 11, 2001 happens and 3,000 Americans die. And then the White House takes 911 as a poiltical football and runs with it. And then it uses 911 as a phony excuse to launch a war on Iraq that--in Clarke's estimation--greatly strengthens al Qaeda.
  
  And I had thought that Paul O'Neill was mad at and disgusted with the George W. Bush administration...

eta: I don't know whether Clarke claims (or DeLong means to suggest that Clarke claims) that 9/11 would't have happened if he'd been allowed to do what he was proposing. I posted this re Clarke's motivation, not re that possible claim, so let's not let this be the spark that touches that one off again.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop

Yes Ty. It is the Bush Whitehouse that is delivering bitter, unfair, politically motivated attacks on Clarke. This is because Bush attacked Iraq to gain $$ for his friends, and avenge his dad.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Brad DeLong has been reading Clarke's book, and says:

• If there is one thing clear from reading Against All Enemies, it is that Clarke is f***ing apeshit.

So, to recap, spelling out "fucking" is offensive, but writing "apeshit" in its entirety is A-OK.

I don't think I've ever used that term, apeshit. Seems like something I should start working in. Like "I am completely apeshit that Condi Rice isn't testifying in open session before the 9/11 Commission." There. I like that.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Yes Ty. It is the Bush Whitehouse that is delivering bitter, unfair, politically motivated attacks on Clarke. This is because Bush attacked Iraq to gain $$ for his friends, and avenge his dad.

I don't know about bitter or unfair. It's political for them. Those of us who vote can worry about who's right. You'd think they'd do a better job of getting their story straight, what with all the practice they've had with officials leaving the administration and telling people how things work, but maybe they're having a bad week. (Or maybe it's getting harder to find good trained attack monkeys.)

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
So, to recap, spelling out "fucking" is offensive, but writing "apeshit" in its entirety is A-OK.

I don't think I've ever used that term, apeshit. Seems like something I should start working in. Like "I am completely apeshit that Condi Rice isn't testifying in open session before the 9/11 Commission." There. I like that.

Only for the record, the context in which I've most commonly heard the term is something like "Fringey went absolutely apeshit when she found out Hank had not actually divorced his first five wives".

Its usage in a different context by DeLong seemed a bit strange.

Hello

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Yes Ty. It is the Bush Whitehouse that is delivering bitter, unfair, politically motivated attacks on Clarke. This is because Bush attacked Iraq to gain $$ for his friends, and avenge his dad.

Careful Hank, once you start reviewing cartoons you'll have to review them all, and it doesn't appear to be good for your blood pressure.

Besides -- apart from the Wicked Witch costume on Bush and the wings on Cheney -- was the cartoon factually inaccurate?

P.S. I doubt that the Clarke attacks are "politically motivated" in the narrow sense of seeking partisan gain, because Clarke is/has been a dedicated Republican.

In that vein, I heard one commentator remark that Clarke is a different sort of problem for the Administration because he presents the first major attack on their counter-terrorism policies and efforts from the right (i.e. no wailing about civil liberties or judicial protections, etc. -- just sez they fucked up).

Also -- unlike O'Neill, Clarke's not a known oddball, and this topic is within his area of expertise. He gains a certain degree of credibility from being in the position that had him acting as the government's "crisis manager" on 9-11. So, it takes different tactics to discredit him than the prior foes.

S_A_M

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Only for the record, the context in which I've most commonly heard the term is something like "Fringey went absolutely apeshit when she found out Hank had not actually divorced his first five wives".

Its usage in a different context by DeLong seemed a bit strange.

Hello

I am now rather embarassed that I just told my boss that I am apeshit about my low wages. I knew I should have just stuck with "miffed". Damn. I just don't use idioms well.

It seems like Fringey goes apeshit all the time. There.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I call bullshit. I saw the posters; "Don't trust anyone over 30."
30 b, not 40.

"Lather turned 30 years old today,
they took away all of his toys"

The 31-40 year olds were ungraying their hair and claiming to be younger than they were. It was the only shot they had at the ditzy hippie chicks.

[Gattigap]

Michael Newdow, the atheist's best friend, argued his Pledge of Allegience case before the Supremes today.

Opposition to Newdow's position is heavy, and is populated by the outraged Christian right, the purists clinging to tradition, and the unwashed masses who don't see the big deal about keeping it in; in the aggregate they constitute 9 of 10 Americans who want it to remain.

I'm one of the nine, though it is an interesting academic exercise. The "under God" reference is a Cold War relic, inserted by Congress in 1954, and even though I'm a little nostalgic because I always recited it this way while growing up*, the "It's A Sacred Tradition!" argument still annoys me a bit, for the same reasons it annoys me that we no longer get to sing "Take Me Out To the Ballgame" during the 7th-inning stretch.

OTOH, there's still something to be said for tokens of general public reverence, which I think this is. This, to me, is no more offensive than similar references on the dollar bill and elsewhere.

Finally, as it happens I've met Newdow, and as a result find it hard to take his cause, or him, that seriously. Back in the day, we hosted a party that (for some) extended into the next morning. I'm not sure whether it was Newdow's arriving with pot**, or finding him asleep at 5am in our conversation pit, but in any event it's hard for me to keep steady an image of him as a sincere advocate in this case.

Gattigap

* Bilmore, what was it like to recite ithe Pledge without "under God" when you were in school?

** That he shared -- as all kind invitees do -- earns him kudos, of course.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
OTOH, there's still something to be said for tokens of general Finally, as it happens I've met Newdow, and as a result find it hard to take his cause, or him, that seriously. Back in the day, we hosted a party that (for some) extended into the next morning. I'm not sure whether it was Newdow's arriving with pot**, or finding him asleep at 5am in our conversation pit, but in any event it's hard for me to keep steady an image of him as a sincere advocate in this case.

Gattigap

I'm sure most of you've heard this part, but there's a chance the case'll get bounced because Mom, born-again now has custody. Gatti's buddy lost custody because he let girl go to pee by herself
in a public restroom.

I believe Atticus was on the brief for this this issue.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Careful Hank, once you start reviewing cartoons you'll have to review them all, and it doesn't appear to be good for your blood pressure.

The one thing I regret? I believe I was hasty in picking gilligan.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I heard one commentator remark that Clarke is a different sort of problem for the Administration because he presents the first major attack on their counter-terrorism policies and efforts from the right.

A dubious term to use, given that his complaint is that their bureaucracy stifled the program he had going in the Clinton Administration.