Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
And what you are failing to grasp is that IT IS NOT OKAY TO FUCKING KILL, TORTURE, AND TERRORIZE PEOPLE INTO A "DEMOCRACY."

You can't judge everything from hindsight. Politics is not that easy. Sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. We supplied Stalin with tons of ammunition and supplies during World War II, and lots of it was used to exterminate his own people. We sent all the Russian prisoners of war back to Stalin even though we knew that he would kill them to avoid a conflict. Pinochets actions were not forseable. Allende's were. At the time Nixon made the right call.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Was this in the 80's?

It was about eight months ago at a California Republican Party Convention.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
You can't judge everything from hindsight. Politics is not that easy. Sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. We supplied Stalin with tons of ammunition and supplies during World War II, and lots of it was used to exterminate his own people. We sent all the Russian prisoners of war back to Stalin even though we knew that he would kill them to avoid a conflict. Pinochets actions were not forseable. Allende's were. At the time Nixon made the right call.

That's a nifty trick -- all the bad stuff Pinochet did was utterly unforeseeable, but all the bad stuff Allende might have done was utterly predictable. And it was necessary to overthrow the democratically elected government to make sure that eventually, after the junta finished torturing people, democracy might return.

eta: Here's a nifty thing about democracy: When the government is accountable to the people, it tends not to torture them so much.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
You can't judge everything from hindsight. Politics is not that easy.

Indeed not.

• That still does not change the fact that Chile now has the strongest economy in Latin America, and has the highest standard of living (maybe number 2) in South America. When the coup occured, Chile was close to the bottom, its standard of living was declining rapidly, there was massive inflation, and incredible capital flight from the country. Pinochet may have been a nasty dude, but the country has kept his economic policies in place making Chile the economic miracle of Latin America.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
And it was necessary to overthrow the democratically elected government to make sure that eventually, after the junta finished torturing people, democracy might return.

Sometimes it is necessary to destroy the village in order to save it. Especially from the Reds.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic


Unfortunately, this story proves Bo Derek is humorless and has no style. Otherwise she would at least have gotten you another cheap cocktail.

Actually, Jennifer Stockman was also standing with us. Jennifer Stockman is the head of the "Republican Majority for Choice" but more importantly she is David Stockman's wife. For those of you not old enough, David Stockman wrote a book called the Triumph of Politics, about his tenure as Reagan's budget director. He was eventually pushed out because he was not a team player. I read his book in college and it changed my life. I switched from Poly Sci to Economics and ended up writing my senior thesis on the Federal Budget Process because of his book. When I figured out she was David Stockman's wife I became a star struck babling idiot and was telling Jennifer how her husband changed my life and if she could get him to read my thesis etc., if I could meet him, and generally making a total fool of myself. Bo Derek had never even heard of David Stockman and I think she left because she was not used to being outshown by a person that was not even present, and that she had never heard of.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's a nifty trick -- all the bad stuff Pinochet did was utterly unforeseeable, but all the bad stuff Allende might have done was utterly predictable. And it was necessary to overthrow the democratically elected government to make sure that eventually, after the junta finished torturing people, democracy might return.

eta: Here's a nifty thing about democracy: When the government is accountable to the people, it tends not to torture them so much.

Allende had already asked for soviet assistance, was clamping down on the press for criticising him and had declared a state of emergency because of all the riots over the economic mess. It was pretty clear where things were headed. You would have to be blind to see where it was heading. We had the choice of a Sociality dictatorship or a military junta, and the military junta clearly turned out to be the right choice. Are you saying Pinochet's record is worse than Castro's. If I had a choice between a Castro and a Pinochet, or even the chance of a Castro, I would pick Pinochert any day.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by ironweed
Sometimes it is necessary to destroy the village in order to save it. Especially from the Reds.

Better dead than Red, pinko. Go back to Erie, comrade.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

eta: Here's a nifty thing about democracy: When the government is accountable to the people, it tends not to torture them so much.

On what planet are you talking about? Democratic governments start ignoring the people all the time and turn to torture etc. Chile was like Germany in the early 1930s, it was just a question of what sort of dictator was going to take over.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Spanky
Allende had already asked for soviet assistance, was clamping down on the press for criticising him and had declared a state of emergency because of all the riots over the economic mess. It was pretty clear where things were headed. You would have to be blind to see where it was heading. We had the choice of a Sociality dictatorship or a military junta, and the military junta clearly turned out to be the right choice. Are you saying Pinochet's record is worse than Castro's. If I had a choice between a Castro and a Pinochet, or even the chance of a Castro, I would pick Pinochert any day.

Why would it necessarily have turned out like Cuba. You have no idea what it would have turned out like. No one could know what would have happened if Allende had stayed around. Maybe some other non-military-junta option would have materialized. This writing style is very creepy. How can you not feel the oozing creepiness while you are writing.

I don't recall that Castro has raped or murdered or tortured people. If he did, did he do it as much as Pinochet is the question. While we are talking about dictators, what political stripe were Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier is another question. Jesus christ I think I have to go cut off my fingers for typing sentences in this style. It is truly shocking.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Spanky
Pinochets actions were not forseable.

Pure fantasy.


Or were you thinking of all the military juntas that turned out to be really really nice guys, once their enemies were all dead?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Pure fantasy.


Or were you thinking of all the military juntas that turned out to be really really nice guys, once their enemies were all dead?

I'm betting he interviewed well.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Spanky
On what planet are you talking about? Democratic governments start ignoring the people all the time and turn to torture etc. Chile was like Germany in the early 1930s, it was just a question of what sort of dictator was going to take over.

Socialism = fascism.

Democracy = dictatorship.

Military dictatorship = free market.

Got it.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
Actually, Jennifer Stockman was also standing with us. Jennifer Stockman is the head of the "Republican Majority for Choice" but more importantly she is David Stockman's wife. For those of you not old enough, David Stockman wrote a book called the Triumph of Politics, about his tenure as Reagan's budget director. He was eventually pushed out because he was not a team player. I read his book in college and it changed my life. I switched from Poly Sci to Economics and ended up writing my senior thesis on the Federal Budget Process because of his book. When I figured out she was David Stockman's wife I became a star struck babling idiot and was telling Jennifer how her husband changed my life and if she could get him to read my thesis etc., if I could meet him, and generally making a total fool of myself. Bo Derek had never even heard of David Stockman and I think she left because she was not used to being outshown by a person that was not even present, and that she had never heard of.

David Stockman? As in "trickle down economics"? That's your economic hero? Dear Lord.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spanky
Allende had already asked for soviet assistance, was clamping down on the press for criticising him and had declared a state of emergency because of all the riots over the economic mess.

Riots that we paid for and orchestrated, and an economic mess that we helped create at the behest of ITT, Pepsi, and Anaconda.

Oh, and I am willing to be corrected -- but when exactly did Chile's economy become a marvel? If memory serves, it became robust in the 1990s, after the military stepped down and returned control to the civilians.