Meh.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
No need to retract, my dear Bob...

Uh, I was retracting as to slave. You're still an idiot. :smack:

[Sparklehorse]

Krampus, a terrifying companion to St Nicholas, is seen in an age-old Austrian procession to mark the start of Advent.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
No question about it. Bruce sucks. His biggest fan base was ugly teenaged girls who shouted his lyrics in the school hallways, who couldn't wait till Friday when they could pile in the car borrowed from Mommy/Daddy to go "down the shore" so they could get tan (a painful looking sunburn with terrible white strap marks), drink too many beers, hook up with athletic white bread boys and then pretend they were still virgins come Monday morning. For their boring lives, declaring they were "born to run" was about as exciting as things got. But then, their idol played life just as safe and didn't exactly push the envelope. And his lyrics weren't inspiring any consciousness raising neither. Never heard of anyone inspired to improve life or change the world by a Tenth Avenue Freeze Out, which is what exactly?

Damn, I thought NotBob would have fielded this by now, but since he hasn't...

First, to declare than an artist who has a catalog of probably upwards of 1,000 songs to their credit "sucks" is just stupid. Maybe you don't like them. And I can accept that. But "sucks"? I don't think so.

Second, to denounce an artist on the basis of a fan base is sort of silly, ins't it? Do you also not like The Indigo Girls because their fan base is unshaven lesbians, Liz Phair because her fan base is angry young 20-somethings and the men who want to bang them (and the fair Ms. Phair), or Jimmy Buffett because of the whole Parrot Head thing?

I am, not surprisingly, one of those girls who used to go down the shore (which in high school meant LBI, and in college meant Wildwood). But I don't love Bruce because he was the background music for my misspent youth. I love Bruce because his music has been the soundtrack for my entire fucking life. Certain songs take me instantly to a time and place, and are so wrapped up in the memories as to be an instant ticket back in time. Trapped is my freshman year in college. Thunder Road is getting dressed for my wedding. Into the Fire is nursing my newborn daughter to sleep. The River is my first car (an Amc Hornet that made hundreds of trips down the shore and was as likely to be blasting the Hooters as Bruce) with the tape deck my dad installed. There's something to be said for writing songs that evoke feelings we all have, and man, oh, man, Bruce has written some doozies.

Lastly, I wasn't aware that rock n' roll was required to inspire consciousness raising, but to accuse Bruce of failing to do that only means that you've never listened to a single tune on The Rising, The Ghost of Tom Joad, or Nebraska. It means that the message of The Streets of Philadelphia is lost on you. It means that you've never even heard Matamoros Banks.

As for poetry, I won't argue with whomever you find poetic. But I'll tell you what... to me, this is poetry.

Out where the creek turns shallow and sandy
And the moon comes skimmin' away the stars
The wind in the mesquite comes rushin' over the hilltops
Straight into my arms
Straight into my arms

I'm riding hard carryin' a catch of roses
And a fresh map that I made
Tonight I'm gonna get birth naked and bury my old soul
And dance on its grave
And dance on its grave

It's been a long time comin', my dear
It's been a long time comin' but now it's here

Well my daddy he was just a stranger
Lived in a hotel downtown
When I was a kid he was just somebody
Somebody I'd see around
Somebody I'd see around

Now down below and pullin' on my shirt
I got some kids of my own
Well if I had one wish in this god forsaken world, kids
It'd be that your mistakes would be your own
Yea your sins would be your own

It's been a long time comin', my dear
It's been a long time comin' but now it's here

Out 'neath the arms of Cassiopeia
Where the sword of Orion sweeps
It's me and you, Rosie, cracklin' like crossed wires
And you breathin' in your sleep
You breathin' in your sleep

Well there's just a spark of campfire burning
Two kids in a sleeping bag beside
I Reach 'neath your shirt, lay my hands across your belly
And feel another one kickin' inside
I ain't gonna fuck it up this time

It's been a long time comin', my dear
It's been a long time comin' but now it's here
It's been a long time comin', my dear
It's been a long time comin' but now it's here

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by ABBAKiss
I left my Thanksgiving "celebration" abruptly when my behated grandmother yet again was rude to me. So I said, "I don't need this" and walked out. HAH! I REALLY can't wait for Christmas. I think I may boycott altogether. Actually, Fugee, can I do Christmas with you? We can get drunk and discuss the bible. ETA: And I can teach you about double anal and fisting.

I spent Thanksgiving with the Canadians (as usual), but spent the weekend with my boyfriend's family. You are making them seem very normal. All we did was drink a lot and eat a lot and make fun of my boyfriend. Maybe they were hiding the dysfunction for my benefit.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
First, to declare than an artist who has a catalog of probably upwards of 1,000 songs to their credit "sucks" is just stupid. Maybe you don't like them. And I can accept that. But "sucks"? I don't think so.

Yes, I do not like him and in my opinion, he sucks. The term "Bruce Sucks" is actually a popular phrase b/c many people think he suck, just as he has many fans.

Second, to denounce an artist on the basis of a fan base is sort of silly, ins't it? Do you also not like The Indigo Girls because their fan base is unshaven lesbians, Liz Phair because her fan base is angry young 20-somethings and the men who want to bang them (and the fair Ms. Phair), or Jimmy Buffett because of the whole Parrot Head thing?

I was never squished in a room full of unshaven lesbians (NTTAWWT) day in, day out, Monday through Friday, throughout my entire teenagedom, with them obnoxiously shouting out song lyrics. Try having a pack of girls with bad breath shout in your face each day "Wendy strap your legs round my engine" as if that was the coolest lyric in the world, and then see if you're interested in going home and exploring B side Bruce songs after school. So, yes, I think association plays a part in whether you like an artist or not. See your own quote below. And, unlike you, Bruce spoke to nothing at all in my life; not ever. I'm reminded here of of The Smiths, "Burn down the disco, hang the blessed DJ, because the music that they constantly play, it says nothing to me about my life".

I am, not surprisingly, one of those girls who used to go down the shore (which in high school meant LBI, and in college meant Wildwood). ... I love Bruce because his music has been the soundtrack for my entire fucking life. Certain songs take me instantly to a time and place, and are so wrapped up in the memories as to be an instant ticket back in time.

Association plays a part with you in terms of music. Great. And you're a Bruce fan who went down the shore during your childhood. Shocker.

Lastly, I wasn't aware that rock n' roll was required to inspire consciousness raising

No. The topic was rock and roll poets.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Damn, I thought NotBob would have fielded this by now, but since he hasn't...

Sorry. I get so tired of arguing with sebby about this that I didn't feel up to taking on another person.

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Second, to denounce an artist on the basis of a fan base is sort of silly, ins't it? Do you also not like The Indigo Girls because their fan base is unshaven lesbians, Liz Phair because her fan base is angry young 20-somethings and the men who want to bang them (and the fair Ms. Phair), or Jimmy Buffett because of the whole Parrot Head thing?

Word. I am not a lesbian, but I dig all of that crunchy-granola, earth shoe-wearing, estrogen-acoustic guitar stuff. (Sadly, I fit squarely into the other two examples.)

Anyway, I am not from New Jersey (NTTAWWT) and have never been to the Jersey shore. And although Springsteen certainly speaks to that set explicitly sometimes ("Greetings From Asbury Park," anyone?), it isn't exclusive. The protagonists in "The River" are more universal working class folks than Jerseyites. The guy in the title track seems more like a rust belt blue collar guy than a Jersey punk racing to Atlantic City in his IROC.

Maybe it's in part a class thing. He clearly has a working class sensibility in many of his songs, and if you aren't able to put yourself in the shoes of a guy who sees fear in the eyes of his wife as the factory lay-offs approach, maybe you think his songs are hokey.

[Gattigap]

The great thing about overly-hyped play productions-cum-movies is that everyone involved gets inspired, including movie critics. The LA Times' Carina Chocano (reg. requ'd) tells us to run for the exits.

• How to put this. "Rent" is a Chris Columbus adaptation of a smash-hit Broadway musical about artistic integrity, counterculture, political activism and squatters' rights that may have been the most successful moneymaking venture ever staked on selling the idea that "selling out" is bad.
  
  ***
  
  It's hard to put the experience of watching "Rent" into words, especially after "Team America: World Police" said everything there was to say about the play with puppets, and so succinctly. ("Everyone has AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS! Everyone has AIDS!")
  
  But I'll try.
  
  "Rent" is commodified faux bohemia on a platter, eliciting the same kind of numbing soul-sadness as children's beauty pageants, tiny dogs in expensive boots, Mahatma Gandhi in Apple ads. It's about art, activism and counterculture in the same way that a poster of a kitten hanging from a tree branch ("Hang in There!") is about commitment and heroic perseverance. It represents everything the people it pretends to stand for hate. And it doesn't even know it. Watching it feels sort of like watching "Touched by an Angel" with your grandmother and realizing that although you're clearly looking at the same thing, you're seeing something entirely different. It's awkward to behold.

Snarky movie reviews are, IMHO, the best way to start the week. You're instantly fueled with the schadenfreude that makes getting through the upcoming days of incessant nattering of clients and the soul-crushing mandatory sexual harrassment seminars with Flinty possible.

You're welcome.

Gattigap

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Maybe it's in part a class thing. He clearly has a working class sensibility in many of his songs, and if you aren't able to put yourself in the shoes of a guy who sees fear in the eyes of his wife as the factory lay-offs approach, maybe you think his songs are hokey.

I don't know a single blue collar worker who listens to Bruce. He may have a working class sensibility in his songs but from what I can see, his audience is mostly Upper Middle Class who wouldn't have to fear a factory lay off ruining their lives. Probably the same deal with Tracy Chapman. I am (now at least) Upper Middle Class white and love her but not one of my black friends listens to her. What do they like? R&B and rap, and new/funky stuff.

[Sparklehorse]

Originally posted by Gattigap
"Rent" is ... about art, activism and counterculture in the same way that a poster of a kitten hanging from a tree branch ("Hang in There!") is about commitment and heroic perseverance.

Gattigap

The real reason Gatti likes this review -- it helps him cloak his kitten cruelty in the ruse of teaching deeper meaning to his wife and children.

Originally posted by Gattigap
You're welcome.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Sparklehorse
The real reason Gatti likes this review -- it helps him cloak his kitten cruelty in the ruse of teaching deeper meaning to his wife and children.

Untrue. The deeper point of that other story is that the cat keeping its claws, even in the face of its unrelenting stupidity, is a lesson in forgiveness, forebearance, and love towards all.

[str8outavannuys]

Originally posted by Gattigap
The great thing about overly-hyped play productions-cum-movies is that everyone involved gets inspired, including movie critics. The LA Times' Carina Chocano (reg. requ'd) tells us to run for the exits.

• How to put this. "Rent" is a Chris Columbus adaptation of a smash-hit Broadway musical about artistic integrity, counterculture, political activism and squatters' rights that may have been the most successful moneymaking venture ever staked on selling the idea that "selling out" is bad.
  
  ***
  
  It's hard to put the experience of watching "Rent" into words, especially after "Team America: World Police" said everything there was to say about the play with puppets, and so succinctly. ("Everyone has AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS! Everyone has AIDS!")
  
  But I'll try.
  
  "Rent" is commodified faux bohemia on a platter, eliciting the same kind of numbing soul-sadness as children's beauty pageants, tiny dogs in expensive boots, Mahatma Gandhi in Apple ads. It's about art, activism and counterculture in the same way that a poster of a kitten hanging from a tree branch ("Hang in There!") is about commitment and heroic perseverance. It represents everything the people it pretends to stand for hate. And it doesn't even know it. Watching it feels sort of like watching "Touched by an Angel" with your grandmother and realizing that although you're clearly looking at the same thing, you're seeing something entirely different. It's awkward to behold.

Snarky movie reviews are, IMHO, the best way to start the week. You're instantly fueled with the schadenfreude that makes getting through the upcoming days of incessant nattering of clients and the soul-crushing mandatory sexual harrassment seminars with Flinty possible.

You're welcome.

Gattigap

Jonathan Larson is a rock and roll musical poet, and if you (and the LA Times) fail to recognize, well then you're just a ninny-pants. And I'm not just saying this because whenever I hear "Rent," it takes me back to my summers (which in high school meant volunteering at hospices in the lower east village, and in college meant doing the same in the Castro). No, it's much much more than that. "Rent" is the soundtrack for my entire fucking life. When I hear "No Day But Today" it takes me back to my Bar Mitzvah. When I hear "Five Hundred Twenty Five Thousand," it's working on the final issue of "Rumpus" senior year. Or "Tango Maureen" -- taking dance lessons to prepare for my wedding. "Rent" inspires me, as it has countless others, and you and Carina Chocano can just go pound sand.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
Jonathan Larson is a rock and roll musical poet, and if you (and the LA Times) fail to recognize, well then you're just a ninny-pants. And I'm not just saying this because whenever I hear "Rent," it takes me back to my summers (which in high school meant volunteering at hospices in the lower east village, and in college meant doing the same in the Castro). No, it's much much more than that. "Rent" is the soundtrack for my entire fucking life. When I hear "No Day But Today" it takes me back to my Bar Mitzvah. When I hear "Five Hundred Twenty Five Thousand," it's working on the final issue of "Rumpus" senior year. Or "Tango Maureen" -- taking dance lessons to prepare for my wedding. "Rent" inspires me, as it has countless others, and you and Carina Chocano can just go pound sand.

All good reasons to buy and play the soundtrack in your regular rotation. 'Taint a reason to hire someone like Chris Columbus to try and make a movie of it, though.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
I don't know a single blue collar worker who listens to Bruce. He may have a working class sensibility in his songs but from what I can see, his audience is mostly Upper Middle Class who wouldn't have to fear a factory lay off ruining their lives. Probably the same deal with Tracy Chapman. I am (now at least) Upper Middle Class white and love her but not one of my black friends listens to her. What do they like? R&B and rap, and new/funky stuff.

Now? No. Currently, the blue collar workers I know listen to either (1) kick-ass country (apparently an acrual genre these days); (2) hip-hop; or (3) Blue Oyster Cult/LZ/Foghat-esque classic rock. However, back when Born to Run and The River came out, his fan base included blue collar workers (at least the ones under 35 or so -- my father, for example, was a Johnny Cash fan, and hated everything from Elvis forward).

Oh, and speaking of the man in black, the Johnny Cash movie was pretty damned good.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
All good reasons to buy and play the soundtrack in your regular rotation. 'Taint a reason to hire someone like Chris Columbus to try and make a movie of it, though.

Are there any good songs for Spinning?

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Gattigap
All good reasons to buy and play the soundtrack in your regular rotation. 'Taint a reason to hire someone like Chris Columbus to try and make a movie of it, though.

True, but I'm tempted to agree with Mrs. Not Bob's request to see it solely because of the presence of Rosario Dawson. Yum.