En attendant Bloomberg.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Secret_Agent_Man

Well, you also gotta remember that Chelsea was accompanied by Secret Service agents during those teen years. Cuts down the odds of the quickie in the back seat. The Pallins had none of those advantages.

S_A_M

Are you implying that the Commander in Chief of the Alaska National Guard (CINCANG) cannot marshal those resources? If I were governor, I would have the CHP guarding my daughters' chunis 24/7/365.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

"Certain people have implied that my baby Trig is actually my daughter's, and that we are fooling the world with an elaborate ruse. These people are ridiculous. If I had planned to emulate the plotline of 'Desperate Housewives,' I think I would have chosen to be Gabrielle. That is the last I will say on this matter, other than to say that any member of the press that dignifies this smear by implying that my precious baby is not my own will have no further access to the McCain/Palin campaign beyond press releases. Now, does anyone want to talk about issues that concern the country?"

Fini.

Agreed, but I meant I don't know what they do instead about Bristol's pregnancy. If they say nothing, it could become somethign to gossip about later, especially as I read today that it has been known for awhile back home.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by did you just call me coltrane?

i agree with this. The man is a huge nerd, but since black people are cool, he doesn't seem that nerdy.

poty.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Adder

Agreed, but I meant I don't know what they do instead about Bristol's pregnancy. If they say nothing, it could become somethign to gossip about later, especially as I read today that it has been known for awhile back home.

"It has been brought to my attention that Internet bloggers are circulating rumors that my eldest daughter is expecting. I am happy to confirm those rumors. Bristol and her fiance are planning their wedding, and we are overjoyed. While we had planned to make this announcement in a more traditional and intimate setting with invitations and birth announcements, because my daughter's wedding plans are not a matter of national interest, the McCain/Palin campaign will not expend its resources publicizing their showers, their wedding, or their subsequent family life. We gratefully accept people's prayers and well-wishes, and I look forward to joining the long and great tradition of American grandmothers. I will not be taking questions at this time."

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

No offense, but fuck you. I am a black voter and I wanted Edwards before I was exposed to Obama. I, like many of the white voters exposed to him and his ideas, changed my mind when I was given a chance to get to know him better. You can't possibly argue that his immense popularity is not a product of his charisma and message. Why do pundits think that every black voter would choose a candidate solely on the color of his skin? Why do they think that every female voter chooses a candidate based solely on their gender? If Clarence Thomas was running against McCain, I and I'm sure every black voter I have ever met with any sense would vote for McCain. I assume most Hillary voters won't vote for McCain simply because he has a woman on the ticket. And where do black women voters fall, because it seems like they get lumped all on the Obama side because they choose race first. It's ridiculous.

This is why this argument is stupid. Every candidate has something about them that has nothing to do with the issues that will sway some voters. To reduce either one of their accomplishments because blacks vote for him or women vote for her is incredibly insulting, especially since, under this approach, a white man from the South (Edwards) should have stomped both of them since he should have carried the white vote overwhelmingly.

I agree with you completely except I think Obama is trailing right now. There is no way the number of people who are now labeled as Obama voters will vote for him in the same numbers the polls indicate. No way. It's much less than the polls show. That's what should make you angry. That's what you should be focused on.

TM

He didn't get ALL Black voters. He galvanized a large number, however, as every pundit admitted regarding the North Carolina primary. The same way Hillary galvanized a lot but not all of women voters. The same way Kennedy grabbed a lot but not all of Catholic voters. You're assuming all voters decide on as complex a slates of concerns as you or I do and that's not the case. His background is a factor as much as any other candidate's background would be a factor. It's not the only factor and no one has ever said that. It was but one factor he deftly played to his advantage where it should have sunk him.

I'll leave my thoughts on Edwards out of this except to say thank God he's not in the race.

It is offensive and irritating to see all these people voting for all the stupid fucking reasons they are doing so. Every four years I get to see just how idiotic our country is. My initial point was frustration at a bunch of suburban know-it-all Lefties fixating on Obama as some messiah because he's Black. So he's Black. So what?

That anyone votes for or against him in any part based on the level of melanin in his skin is ridiculous. You rightly took me to task for failing to criticize both sides of that coin. I can only plead laziness and a pet peeve against my friends who strike me as country club liberals. Anyone who'd pull a fucking lever based solely on a person's ethnicity, religion, race, etc... is a fucking idiot. Can I be more clear? Or repetitive?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It is offensive and irritating to see all these people voting for all the stupid fucking reasons they are doing so.

What skin is it off your nose? People value things differently than you do. How shocking and outrageous!

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

What skin is it off your nose? People value things differently than you do. How shocking and outrageous!

You should vote on rational bases. Nothing else.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I'm sorry if I came off like I was attacking you. I don't like it when people act like Obama hasn't accomplished anything or take away from how inspirational he is by reducing his skill to a product of his skin color. To me, the simple fact that he is able to make people look at him the way the would any white candidate is truly significant.

A few weeks ago, before I switched my work email over to my iPhone, I got a text message from some asshole on my blackberry that said, "If it's brown, flush it down. Keep that nigger out of office!" The other day, my fiancee was eating at a very nice restaurant in Vegas when the table of white men behind her said the most horrible, racist shit about him. She complained and asked for her table to be moved. They then tried to offer her a glass or bottle of wine. (I'm suprised she didn't accept it and then smash it over one of their heads. (She's a little crazy like that.)) I have seen some pretty disgusting graffitti about Obama and God forbid I ever read the comments section of any article about him -- they're overwhelmingly racist and disgusting. And I can't pretend to not be sensitive to the racial aspect of this race here. I just think that you overlook the consistent effect of racism on Obama's campaign as a given or something that, while not acceptable, is, the way it is. And the fact that you are so vocal about a relatively small group of people who think of Obama's race as a positive seems kind of crazy to me.

TM

I don't think you attacked me in the least. I think you've made an argument about what caused Obama to succeed in the campaign. I offered a provocative point about a slice of white suburban voters who tend to annoy the shit out of me. Where we're missing each other is that I have never said Obama is riding race to the White House. It goes without saying he has a crack organization and beat Hillary senseless with an amazing ground game.

I will always think any candidate sitting in his position grabs some "rebellion" voters of the sort I run into in flyover land. You think that sector is so minimal that my discussing it degrades Obama. I don't think so, but I see the point. I think I raised an odd issue and you attacked it, and in the process made another point - how the selection and presentation of certain issues can give a false impression. To that, I'll admit looking for a provocative issue.

On your last few comments, the only way I've learned to consider race - coming from a backward and somewhat racist area as a kid - is as something that doesn't make sense. I can coolly assess racism because it doesn't directly impact me and most offends me as an intellectually bankrupt concept followed by a lot of the most regressive elements filling my state. Hence, I tend to think any decision based on a person's race is silly, worthy of derision. And I can't help thinking people are basing decisions on race or "differentness" deriving in part from it when I hear them laud a candidate and then stammer when asked why they like him so much. Many of my friends are exceedingly liberal and the tone with which they have described Obama has been near-deifying and not often including discussion of what ought to be an irrelevant topic - his race.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Folks --

please stop posting on this thread. I haven't figured out how to shut it down yet, but i will, and then your bon mots will be lost. There's another new thread. Post there.

Thank you,

the mgmt