Politics: A new beginning - Page 34

ltl/fb · 10-15-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
BTW, how does gunk on the underwear equal her having sex.

There are other explanations for how it got there.

If she is in proximity to any semen at all, she is clearly a whore and was asking for it. Duh. I hope you are never my defense attorney when I get prosecuted for rape.

ltl/fb · 10-15-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I think the defense is making is shown by the following quote from the chicagotribune.com:

>>"The accuser arrived at the hospital wearing panties with someone else's semen and sperm in them, not that of Mr. Bryant, correct?" Mackey asked.

"That's correct," Winters responded.<<

So this was the next day. She goes in for a rape exam wearing underwear with the traces of someone who is specifically not the person she is accusing of rape.

I'm not sure if it shows she was ever lying or even if it shows she tried to avoid presenting the actual evidence. But, it sure doesn't help show Kobe raped her.

Hello

Yes, but bringing in the underwear from the day before that do have Kobe's semen in them does help show that.

sgtclub · 10-15-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Yes, but bringing in the underwear from the day before that do have Kobe's semen in them does help show that.

As I understand it, the panties she was wearing on the day of the exam (a) contained blood (b) did not contain KB sperm or pubes, and (c) did contain sperm and pubes of a caucasian.

If so, I think we can assume that the panties she was wearing at the exam ("panties 2") were not the panties she was wearing at the time of the incident.

So if KB raped her, what happened?

1. She was raped by KB, went home, and changed into panties 2, which just happened to contain sperm and pubes from a previous adventure that occured prior to KB; or

2. She was raped by KB, went home, changed into panties 2, had sex with caucasian, then went to the hospital.

Any others? This is starting to sound a little fishy to me.

ltl/fb · 10-15-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
As I understand it, the panties she was wearing on the day of the exam (a) contained blood (b) did not contain KB sperm or pubes, and (c) did contain sperm and pubes of a caucasian.

If so, I think we can assume that the panties she was wearing at the exam ("panties 2") were not the panties she was wearing at the time of the incident.

So if KB raped her, what happened?

1. She was raped by KB, went home, and changed into panties 2, which just happened to contain sperm and pubes from a previous adventure that occured prior to KB; or

2. She was raped by KB, went home, changed into panties 2, had sex with caucasian, then went to the hospital.

Any others? This is starting to sound a little fishy to me.

I have to admit I have never been raped, but it is not inconceivable to me that after having been raped I might seek out a nicer sexual experience in an attempt to distance myself from the rape. So that it isn't my most recent sexual experience. And I would not be happy if doing this became proof positive that I had never been raped in the first place.

But as I say, I have never been raped.

sgtclub · 10-15-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I have to admit I have never been raped, but it is not inconceivable to me that after having been raped I might seek out a nicer sexual experience in an attempt to distance myself from the rape. So that it isn't my most recent sexual experience. And I would not be happy if doing this became proof positive that I had never been raped in the first place.

But as I say, I have never been raped.

Within 12 hours? In the wee hours of the night? I'm sorry, this does seem inconceivable to me. I'm not saying she wasn't raped, but I cannot believe she would have sex immediately thereafter.

The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

ltl/fb · 10-15-2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Within 12 hours? In the wee hours of the night? I'm sorry, this does seem inconceivable to me. I'm not saying she wasn't raped, but I cannot believe she would have sex immediately thereafter.

The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

OK. You may have more direct experience with rape than I do.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-15-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Within 12 hours? In the wee hours of the night? I'm sorry, this does seem inconceivable to me. I'm not saying she wasn't raped, but I cannot believe she would have sex immediately thereafter.

The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

Post rape period is a period of significant trauma and psychological unpredictability. I've been in the company of recent rape victims on a couple of occassions. The best way I can characterize the experience in each case was that there was too much going on inside her head to conceivable ever be communicated, and so random and unpredictable bits and pieces emerged.

As a result, it is very hard to understand someone's behavior in the day after a rape occurs. Why would anyone put on dirty underwear? Have sex again? Go to the police? Not go to the police? I think it is a period of time when a standard of reasonableness should not apply, and not too much should be read into any evidence of what occurred. There may be an unpredictable but accurate explanation.

Say_hello_for_me · 10-15-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Within 12 hours? In the wee hours of the night? I'm sorry, this does seem inconceivable to me. I'm not saying she wasn't raped, but I cannot believe she would have sex immediately thereafter.

The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

I'm thinking about it, and it still creates problems. If she had reason to leave traces of blood in the vaginal area the day before she alleges she was raped, than it would at least leave some room for argument that any damage found during her examination *may* have been present previous to the time of the alleged rape.

Thus, no evidence of force or damage.

And that is not even getting into what problems may arise if it actually refutes any assertion she may have made.

All of that said, please note that I am not saying she was not raped, nor do I hope for harm to fall on either party at this point. I'm just saying what arguments I would expect to see based on the evidence of the existence of underwear from the day before that were soiled with both blood and semen from another.

I'm not exactly an expert* on this, but I think the timing of her babymakin cycle may play a role in determining the relevance of the evidence.

Hello

*Technically, I know little more than nothing about this.

Replaced_Texan · 10-15-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

I'm not following this case at all, so I have no idea what other evidence or testimony has been offered.

It's possible that she had sex with someone else before she was raped before her encounter with Kobe and the residue from that encounter was found on her underwear. I would imagine that the pelvic exam, though, would have evidence of that encounter, if it had occurred. (Has evidence from the pelvic exam been offered yet?)

It's also possible that she went home after the encounter, got out of whatever it was that she was wearing, and changed into something else. Personally, I'd want whatever I was wearing to be clean after being raped, but I can understand someone choosing to wear soiled clothing after an experience like that one, so as to not contaminate other clean, especially if she was bleeding (as I had heard one report).

Did she go to the hospital for a rape exam? If so, they usually ask whether or not the clothing she is wearing is the clothing that she wore since the rape. The rape nurses are usually fairly well trained to start collecting evidence. A lot of rape victims shower and change after the rape, so it wouldn't be necessarily unusual to wear different clothing from that which was worn during the rape. If she did shower and change, though, it would be much harder to find physical evidence on her person.

Hasn't he already stated that there was an encounter, and the question is whether or not it was consensual? My guess is that there is certainly physical evidence of him having had sexual contact with her on both the underwear and her person.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-15-2003, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Hasn't he already stated that there was an encounter, and the question is whether or not it was consensual? My guess is that there is certainly physical evidence of him having had sexual contact with her on both the underwear and her person.

All that's been happening is a preliminary hearing.

If I understand the reports, they are that she originally consented to sex or sexual acts, but that the consent ended at some point as he became increasingly violent and that post-withdrawn consent he forced her to have anal sex.

Even if the jury finds that this is the entire sequence of events that occurred, it will be a difficult case to win because I believe there are people out there who believe that once you consent to virtually anything at all, anything goes.

sgtclub · 10-15-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
As a result, it is very hard to understand someone's behavior in the day after a rape occurs. Why would anyone put on dirty underwear? Have sex again? Go to the police? Not go to the police? I think it is a period of time when a standard of reasonableness should not apply, and not too much should be read into any evidence of what occurred. There may be an unpredictable but accurate explanation.

The only part of this I question is the part of having sex again. From all I understand about rape and the psychology of it, it is far more likely that it would produce the opposite result (i.e., prolonged abstinence). Does that mean it's not possible that she went out and did it? I guess not. But I find it extremely unlikely.

That said, I do find it plausible that she put on dirty wears.

Shape Shifter · 10-15-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
If I understand the reports, they are that she originally consented to sex or sexual acts, but that the consent ended at some point as he became increasingly violent and that post-withdrawn consent he forced her to have anal sex.

This seems unlikely. We have all heard reports of vaginal tearing. Surely if there was nonconsensual anal sex there would have been damage there as well. I have not heard any reports of this.

rufus leeking · 10-16-2003, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub

The only plausible explanation that is consistent with a rape is that she put on some dirty drawals.

maybe she has a laundry problem. if someone started looking through my dirty underwear at 19 they'd have been able to find evidence of all kind of things.

andViolins · 10-16-2003, 11:32 AM

Malaysian Urges Muslims to Unite Vs. Jews

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad on Thursday told a summit of Islamic leaders that "Jews rule the world by proxy" and the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite, using nonviolent means for a "final victory."

His speech at the Organization of the Islamic Conference summit, which he was hosting, drew criticism from Jewish leaders, who warned it could spark more violence against Jews.

Mahathir, who is known for his outspoken, anti-Western rhetoric, criticized what he described as Jewish domination of the world and Muslim nations' inability to adequately respond to it as he opened the meeting of Islamic leaders from 57 nations.

"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to fight and die for them."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...islamic_summit

aV

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-16-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
This seems unlikely. We have all heard reports of vaginal tearing. Surely if there was nonconsensual anal sex there would have been damage there as well. I have not heard any reports of this.

I thought there were such reports; I have not been following that closely, but will keep an eye out.