Politics: A new beginning

[sgtclub]

Boxcutters found on 2 SW planes

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2038384&EDATE=

[rufus leeking]

to the tune of Bus stop

Bus Stop, Juan's there, I wear,
my no war peace button
Bus stop, bus goes, Juan stays, talk flows,
bout my no war button

for about an hour we talked about it,
Iraq and bombs and marine,
that no war button, we spoke about it,
by next day, posted the scene.

Every day I would see Juan socks posting at the board,

okay-that's it still in progress.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The PA hasn't been able to arrest militants the last three years when they kill Israelis, but kill a few Americans and look what happens . . .

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._nm/mideast_dc

I suspect that a big piece of that success comes from the fact that these guys are not Hamas or Islamic Johd -- and thus aren't being protected by those groups. Both organizations made a poin of stepping up within a few hours and publicly announcing that they 'had nothing to do with" the bombings. They'd prefer to keep their record of never targeting Americans. it reminded me lot of how quickly the British police identified and captured the Omagh bombers in NI after the splinter "Real IRA" committed that atrocity while the IRA held to the cease-fire and denounced the bombing. In both cases, it would not surprise me if other bad guys made a phone call.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Albright, perhaps the worst Secretary of State in US history, criticizes Bush in France.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/031016/19/m40i.html

I'd be interested to hear you give an informed critique of her performance as Secretary of State, as compared to that of her predecessors and successor. I've always found her to be intelligent, reasonable, and convincing. What do you have against her other than her being short, ugly, and condemned to carry out Clinton's oreign policy.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
What do you have against her other than her being short, ugly, and condemned to carry out Clinton's oreign policy.

Clinton appointed both shorter and uglier, she's actually mainstream, or within the range of normal for his abnormality

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Maybe I'm just green, but I think the administration did not give a clear cost estimate pre-war because they had no clue what they would find on the ground or what would be destroyed as a result of the war and, thus, simply could not make a credible estimate. And frankly, if congressional support of the was contingent on the costs, they had an obligation to withhold support until they were satisfied.

Boy, I think that's a very naive view. Just like it is naive to assume that no one in the administration could project that it would take several years and "several hundred thousand troops" to pacify Iraq post-war. A general from the JCS said as much to Congress, and Wolfwowitz and Rumsfeld slammed and pooh-poohed that statement. Counting coalition forces and new Iraqi security forces, that estimate now seems right about spot-on.

I think the administration sold the Iraq policy just like they sold their tax policy-- as any political issue. "Say whatever is needed to get the policy in plce -- and don't face up to unpleasant truths until you have to.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Clinton's foreign policy.

This is an oxymoron and also exactly what I have against her. While I do believe it is fair game for active politicians and others to criticize foreign policies, I don't believe it should be done by former office holders. For example, I don't believe a former president should ever criticize a sitting president. It's just bad form.

But Albright takes it a step further and does it on foreign soil in front of those who are sympathetic to her views. This has the ability to undermine what those that are in office and are making tough decisions are trying to do, and she is not privy to the facts upon which those decisions are based.

[edited to add]

She also appears to me, in leveling those attacks, to be constantly defending her own miserable failures.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by sgtclub

She also appears to me, in leveling those attacks, to be constantly defending her own miserable failures.

I will totally and completely endorse this statement. I can't think of many things that we deal with today which doesn't result from Clinton's failure to deal with it yesterday.

Furthermore, he almost always stunk up ever place where he did stick his Red nose. His only successes seem to be in places where the rest of his party opposed him (NAFTA).

What problems did he solve? Kosovo?

If him and the Europeans had an vision of a peaceful world during his administration, they let it die at the hands of a bunch of savage fuckers in Sarajevo.

Don't get me wrong, I don't affirmatively blame him for starting that problem. However, it is just silly to say they had a decent foreign policy whatsoever when that happened under NATO's (and the Soviet's) noses.

And again, Christ, Yasser? What was the plan again?

Hello

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This is an oxymoron and also exactly what I have against her. While I do believe it is fair game for active politicians and others to criticize foreign policies, I don't believe it should be done by former office holders. For example, I don't believe a former president should ever criticize a sitting president. It's just bad form.

But Albright takes it a step further and does it on foreign soil in front of those who are sympathetic to her views. This has the ability to undermine what those that are in office and are making tough decisions are trying to do, and she is not privy to the facts upon which those decisions are based.

[edited to add]

She also appears to me, in leveling those attacks, to be constantly defending her own miserable failures.

This appears to say:
(1) she's a former official criticizing the current administration, and it just ain't right; and
(2) she had "miserable failures."

(1) is an interesting point, and though I don't really disagree as it relates to former presidents criticizing current ones, I'm curious as to where you'd draw the line. Go too far down that path and you'll eliminate swaths of policymakers so vast that public debate will be essentially brought to a halt. Yes, I do see that you accomodated "active politicians" from prior administrations, but if those folks are all we're permitted to hear from and about, I weep for the future.

In any event, it doesn't really explain why you think she's one of the "worst Secretary of State in US history." Unless, of course, your indignation at her speaking in France is so strong that the past itself is colored by the stain.

(2), while colorful, falls somehow short of the informed critique that SAM had requested.

I don't have a particular emotional investment in this, but I, apparently like SAM, didn't have a particularly bad impression of her, given the playing field she had to inhabit during the Clinton administration. So what gives?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Boxcutters found on 2 SW planes

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2038384&EDATE=

And regarding the 20 year old college student that apparently put them there, CNN says this:

>>"TSA and the FBI have had this individual's activities under investigation for several months," the TSA said in a statement.<<

I'm picturing that scene from the end of the original Indiana Jones movie,

we've got our best people on it.

Or something.

Whatever whatever.

Hello

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
In any event, it doesn't really explain why you think she's one of the "worst Secretary of State in US history." Unless, of course, your indignation at her speaking in France is so strong that the past itself is colored by the stain.


I don't have a particular emotional investment in this, but I, apparently like SAM, didn't have a particularly bad impression of her, given the playing field she had to inhabit during the Clinton administration. So what gives?

Let me start by saying that this is not motivated by partisanship. As you will recall, she was first appointed to the UN by Reagan, so she use to be on our team.

I'll also grant that, like any Secretary of State, she is constrained ultimately by the President under whom she serves.

But . . .

She has dirty hands in Rwanda, which Clinton himself claimed was his worst failure in office (Note: she was not SOS at this time, but was responsible for the stall at the UN)

Her North Korea policy was an absolute joke. Although she wasn't in office when the deal was first struck, she was certainly there when the administration had evidence of non-compliance. Our current situation could have been headed off BEFORE NK got nukes. Oh, wait, that would be "preemption" which is a no no, apparently, in DEM circles.

Her failure to initiate any action (not necessarily military) in Iraq after the inspectors were kicked out in 1998, begins the march to war 2003. Again, preemption would have served us well.

War on Terror: do we need a friggin map? WTC bombing in 1993, Cole Bombing, Embassy Bombings, Sudan's offer to turn over OBL, rise of power and aggressive actions by the Taliban, etc. Oh, let's send over a couple of cruise missles and call it a day. That will teach em not to mess with us. Preemption anyone?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Anyone else want to cry when they see a picture of Terry Schiavo in Florida? I don't have an answer for the morality of it all, but that is a world of hurt for a lot of people.

Bolivia's ex-president is gonna be an American! Yeah! Turns out that the reason the people there are so pissed about exporting natural gas to California through Chile is because Chile took Bolivia's coast away in a war in 1879. I may never advocate something like this again, but it would be nice if they could work something out. It would totally suck to be landlocked in S.A. Maybe I should check a map before I say that landlocked is what they are. Ugh.

Asbestos reform is looking better. Uhm, any suggestions on what the best way for me to hurt Daschle politically might be? No jokes about posing as prepubescent teenage page please!

And Lieberman. As admirable as it was for him to go to the arab-whatever meeting today, couldn't they have just had a question and answer session instead of a hissing and booing session? It seems like dialogue with him would probably be constructive for that particular constituency.

Fewer dead people in Chicago in 9/03 than 9/02. However, the murder rate in LA is lower by about 120 bodies so far this year over last. Yeah Willie! But yeah Cline in Chicago too, cuz the numbers are screaming that he's making some good moves!

And where's Bilmore? Him and Pretty Little Flower disappear the same week, just as asbestos reform is picking up, and the Daintiest Petunia shows up, and, and (sniff), hes talking to the Penske/PT sock crowd on the "other" board whose name shall not be mentioned. Bilmore, please come home. I'm not mad anymore!

Oh wait, you were the one who was mad. My bad. So sad.

Hell(vapidity, stupidity, obnoxiousity, and borededness)o

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
And where's Bilmore? Him and Pretty Little Flower disappear the same week, just as asbestos reform is picking up, and the Daintiest Petunia shows up, and, and (sniff), hes talking to the Penske/PT sock crowd on the "other" board whose name shall not be mentioned. Bilmore, please come home. I'm not mad anymore!

Oh wait, you were the one who was mad. My bad. So sad.

Hell(vapidity, stupidity, obnoxiousity, and borededness)o

Bilmore's absence is not so regrettable. His decline was well-chronicled and the subject of some discussion on this board. His role has been reduced to that of mere shill. Because you mention the other board, I am sure you noticed his rather embarrassing devotion to Coulter and other lesser hacks. Bilmore on his game would seek to distance himself from such tabloid quality punditry. He would have let the lying dogs sleep.

Having staked his online reputation on losing outdated notions, he is now desperate, like an inbred tiger painted into a bighair Vegas corner. He growls and presents a fierce facade. But don't be afraid. He is now interested only in sinking his remaining teeth into flimsy strau men of dubious construction.

So what's this about asbestos reform? Are they bringing it back?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Anyone have an opinion about ESPN firing (and expunging) Gregg Easterbrook?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Anyone have an opinion about ESPN firing (and expunging) Gregg Easterbrook?

I haven't heard of it. What's the deal? I'll miss TMQ until it is picked up by someone else. I was a fan.