Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Yes, but it's curious that Singh hasn't objected to any of the other players who are let in through sponsor's exemptions. Every tour stop has a few (well, most, not the majors), and this is the first time it comes up.

I agree. I think sponsor's exemptions are stupid. But if she really wanted to prove something, she would have earned her spot in the field.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
From what I heard of the "apology" on the news, he basically said "I'm sorry that I sounded like I'm anti-Annika. I'm not, I'm anti-women on the men's tour"

So? They have their own tour. If they didn't, maybe one or two women would be playing professionally. You can't have it both ways. Do you want everything to be fair or do you want your own tour (where men aren't allowed to play)?

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
One of the other players, responding to Singh's comment that he would refuse to play if paired with her, said "Let's see if he's a man of his word when he's leading on Sunday and gets paired with her."

First of all, he would not be paired with her on the first two days since he is a past champion and thus is drawn from a different pool. Second of all, he will never ever, ever be paired with her on Saturday or Sunday if he's leading. She will trail the leader by double digits if she even makes the cut.

TM

[Replaced_Texan]

General comments no spoilers. That sucked. The dialogue sucked, the episode was poorly edited, and everything was just ugh. I can't believe a show that was so dialogue oriented has deteriorated to people making speeches at each other. It feels like the actors just want to get it over and done with so they can go on with their lives, and the previews for next week weren't entirely inspiring. Ugh.

Er, I accidently started a new thread on this. Disregard it.

[Anne Elk]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
He shouldn't be apologizing. He's right. If she qualified for the tournament, I would think it was a good thing. But she didn't. She got a sponsor's exemption, not because she is a skilled golfer, but because The Colonial wanted to draw as much attention and sell as many tickets as possible.

Why do women always want to compete with men on this level? They can't. World class women athletes can beat the hell out of most males in whatever sport they're in, but they cannot compete with world class male athletes, period. Someone will bring up Serena. I will say that she couldn't beat any male pro ranked 50 or higher. And here's the key: she's not interested in trying to prove that she can. She is satisfied knowing that she is the best female tennis player in the world. Why isn't that enough?

Sorenstam did not qualify for this event. Shortly before they announced that she would play in the Colonial a club pro female (can't remember her name) qualified for the Greater Hartford Open by winning a tournament. She played with the men, fromteh same tees as the men and won the darn thing. She deserves to play. Annika in the Colonial is just a publicity thing and in my mind takes away from the achievment of the other player. She is playing from the same tees as the men.

Babe Zaharias played with the men and held her own as I recall.

I read an interview with Serena Williams where she said that she doesn't want to play against the men and doesn't feel that she could, because they are much bigger,stronger, faster, etc.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
After hearing some very poorly thought out arguments in favor of Sorenstam playing ("Let's see if she can beat Tiger!"), I'm starting to think that allowing her to play in the PGA, while perhaps very good for her individually and "fair" in some absolute sense, would have some very deleterious unintended side effects for all other women golfers, and perhaps for women's sports in general. If she's allowed to play because she's "good enough" to play with the boys, it will reduce the LPGA to a bush league for all the women golfers who aren't "good enough." Those who stay in LPGA-only play will then be thought of as playing Powder Puff Golf, and only women who choose to cross over to PGA play will get any attention, ever. Whether Sorenstam loses miserably or beats the shit out of Tiger, from now on all women golfers will be divided into two categories --- those who played LPGA, and those who were "tested" against men. That's a quite unfortunate development.

LPGA champs will then have an asterisk in the almanacs: "and "Greatest woman golfer --- open division" and "Greatest woman golfer --- LPGA only." This is a little more serious than a King v. Riggs one-off publicity stunt.

I agree it's fair in an absolute sense to allow Sorenstam to play. I don't think there are any checks in place to protect the LPGA from inevitably diminished status, which will only serve to discourage women from golfing professionally.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Women have been playing in the LPGA for YEARS. The only reason for the interest in Sorenstam is that she is SO much better than the other women and better than a large majority of the guys, that it seemed unfair to keep her in a circuit where the $$ and the popularity are keeping her off the front page of Sports Illustrated. I'll admit that I have not watched LPGA events - but I will sure keep my eye on how she does in the Colonial. If you asked the other women golfers - I don't think they'd respond that we're playing on the second string. Annika is there because Annika is really good. If other women golfers in the past few decades had been as good - they may have gotten invites.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
General comments no spoilers. That sucked. The dialogue sucked, the episode was poorly edited, and everything was just ugh. I can't believe a show that was so dialogue oriented has deteriorated to people making speeches at each other. It feels like the actors just want to get it over and done with so they can go on with their lives, and the previews for next week weren't entirely inspiring. Ugh.

I don't see why you couldn't put in spoilers. Its a separate thread! If you ain't seen it, don't come here!

I would tend to agree with you. LOTS of boring dialogue. The whole Spike/Buffy conversation in front of the front door was plain stupid. It seemed like it was created just for the "shirty" banter. The whole "old lady slayer and friends create the heavy metal ax circa 1980's bass guitar thing" was also poorly done. I will admit that I did not watch the show religiously, but it seemed a cop out when old lady sez "we watched the watchers who were watching the slayers and we created the Cinderella ax to kill the last true evil demon thingy and we stayed hidden until now and now we're not hidden." 'k?

aV

[Anne Elk]

Originally posted by bilmore
As someone also with a daughter, I see more harm than good. PC aside, basic biologic differences mandate that different sexes have (generally) different strengths. If we are going to merge male and female sports, most females are going to end up eclipsed.

And bruised. I finally stopped playing competitive co-ed basketball for that reason. I'm still hanging in there in other sports.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Yeah, and that's one of his "issues" is that she didn't "qualify" for the tournament. But, on the other hand, she was given the invite because there was a lot of interest in seeing her compete with the guys because she is better that (x percent - I forgot the actual number) of players on the men's circuit. My point is - if you're going to apologize just say - you know what I said was taken out of context blah blah blah. Don't bury your ass deeper by saying more stupid shit - that's NOT an apology. You don't see Tiger saying stuff like that - he'd say "bring it on."

Wrong. He says he doesn't think her playing is a good idea and has withdrawn (not because she's playing). That's about as far from "bring it on" as it gets.

TM

[bilmore]

Originally posted by andViolins
but it seemed a cop out when old lady sez "we watched the watchers who were watching the slayers and we created the Cinderella ax to kill the last true evil demon thingy and we stayed hidden until now and now we're not hidden." 'k?

I've never watched this show, but I'll guess that it involves heavy drug use, yes?

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by spookyfish
Don't tell me you're not curious.

I am very curious to see how well she does.

But to the golfers playing, it would be pretty annoying to be paired with her and subjected to the media circus that will be following her around the course. I thought this was Vijay's major concern. He's just pissed at the hype. To him it's just ridiculous that people think she can compete with the men.

I think the consensus from the male players is that they hope she plays the round of her life, and still misses the cut. That way this issue gets laid to rest for good.

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Someone will bring up Serena. I will say that she couldn't beat any male pro ranked 50 or higher. And here's the key: she's not interested in trying to prove that she can. She is satisfied knowing that she is the best female tennis player in the world. Why isn't that enough?
TM

Some time ago, late 80s/early 90s, Navratilova played Jimmy Connors at some "made-up" event. Connors was allowed only one serve, and half of the doubles line was considered in play on his side of the court. Connors destroyed her. This is the only man vs. woman tennis match I know of where the players were similar in age.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
LPGA champs will then have an asterisk in the almanacs: "and "Greatest woman golfer --- open division" and "Greatest woman golfer --- LPGA only." This is a little more serious than a King v. Riggs one-off publicity stunt.

I agree it's fair in an absolute sense to allow Sorenstam to play. I don't think there are any checks in place to protect the LPGA from inevitably diminished status, which will only serve to discourage women from golfing professionally.

Whether she plays well or not, I don't see the parade of horribles you do, Atticus. First of all, I really don't think her participation in this one event is going to open up the floodgates for women competing in PGA events. Second, I'm not sure that you can say that at least in comparison to the PGA, that the LPGA isn't already viewed in terms of being a "lesser league". Do any of the "major networks" televise women's tournaments? No. Are the purses as large, as a rule? No. So, I don't think this argument holds water. Finally, regardless of how you view the LPGA in terms of status, playing as a professional on the LPGA is nonetheless a hell of a nice way to make a living, if you're skilled enough. I don't think those women who love the game are going to be discouraged from playing at all. Who wouldn't want to be a pro athlete if they could. The mistake is in thinking that these women are somehow not pros.

[Anne Elk]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
If other women golfers in the past few decades had been as good - they may have gotten invites.

Suzy Whaley is the golfer who qualified for the Canon Greater Hartford Open. Story here.

Originally posted by lawyer_princess
I know this is akin to heresy, but I thought Ruben bit last night. He was boooring. Where Kimberley has shown tremendous growth vocally and aesthetically and Clay made a real effort to stop winking, Ruben just does the same shit week after week. Everything he sings sounds the same to me. Not that he isn't talented, but he's dull.

Clay has the best voice in the competition, but he's not Idol material. Someone please give this boy a recording contract so he can put together a CD of ballads and show tunes. It won't go platinum, but it will make a profit.

Kimberley has the most star quality of the three. She should win. She won't, but she should.

Ruben is boring bc he started off amazing and has not had to improve or stand in front of a mirror lip synching while trying not to make facial contortions? Reminds me of something I recently read about Serena Williams. She made winning all four Grand Slam titles look easy.

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by Anne Elk
She played with the men, fromteh same tees as the men and won the darn thing.

Not true. She won the qualifier by playing tees about 10% closer to the hole. For the Greater Hartford Open, she will play from the same tees as the men.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by bilmore
As someone also with a daughter, I see more harm than good. PC aside, basic biologic differences mandate that different sexes have (generally) different strengths. If we are going to merge male and female sports, most females are going to end up eclipsed.

Golf is not only strength, it is strategy, skill, and dare I say finesse. The best golfers are not always the longest hitters. I might agree if this were football, basketball, baseball or hockey, but golf is a non-contact sport, (except for those few times when I was in college and my buddies and I would get really drunk and play, but that's another story entirely.) I recognize the biological differences, but in this case, they're largely irrelevant. Let me ask you this. Who stands a better chance of doing well in a PGA event, Annika or Bill Murray? And don't imply that I'm PC. I'm offended. You've read plenty of my posts and should know better. Take it back, right now, hobbit! I just fail to see where this is going to cause the earth to tilt off it's axis, that's all.

spookyfish

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Wrong. He says he doesn't think her playing is a good idea and has withdrawn (not because she's playing). That's about as far from "bring it on" as it gets.

TM

Alveslohe, Germany -- Tiger Woods not only thinks Annika Sorenstam should play next week's Colonial, he believes she needs several chances to prove she can compete with the men.

"I think it will be more fair to her if she could play four or five tournaments -- then you could judge on those results," Woods said Wednesday before playing in the Deutsche Bank Open. "I'm sure if she did play four or five, she'd get on a roll ... In one tournament a lot could go wrong for her."

Edited to put in this link so y'all don't think I am making it up.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...3/14tiger.html