The New And Improved Fashion Board

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
No, I do M&A. M&A lawyers, and corporate lawyers generally, suck ass and they are obsequious boot-lickers who are painfully aware that they only get to play with their betters' money and then take their frustrations out non-clients.

So far as I can tell, however, ERISA lawyers do not suck ass. They seem to have their heads screwed on pretty straight. Other than the whole ERISA thing, of course.

I find that the day-to-day drudge work of being a deal attorney is more annoying than the other attorneys that I have to deal with. That and the billable hour are the dealbreakers for me.

For the most part, the lawyers I have to talk to on deals are alright. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I'd guess that only 10 or so of the firms/lawyers I've dealt with to date have been complete pains in my ass. Of course, a high percentage of that 10 came from NY firms.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mr. Man
I disagree with that entire post, if anyone is keeping track.

!!!

[nononono]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
WHOO HOO!!!!

Oh wait, I'm not anymore. But I was. And when I was, the few times corp associates sat in on the calls between ERISA counsel on deals, they were shocked at how pleasant the conversations were.

Where I am, the ERISA people actually have cooperative study groups, for God's sake.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
WHOO HOO!!!!

Oh wait, I'm not anymore. But I was. And when I was, the few times corp associates sat in on the calls between ERISA counsel on deals, they were shocked at how pleasant the conversations were.

You might want to think about "why" a little further.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I find that the day-to-day drudge work of being a deal attorney is more annoying than the other attorneys that I have to deal with. That and the billable hour are the dealbreakers for me.

For the most part, the lawyers I have to talk to on deals are alright. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I'd guess that only 10 or so of the firms/lawyers I've dealt with to date have been complete pains in my ass. Of course, a high percentage of that 10 came from NY firms.

I suspect that the life of an inhouse healthcare regulatory attorney is different from that of other attorneys. I spend more time arguing with (and directing curses under my breath to) my client than anyone else. Other attorneys, in general, are there to help me out, not hinder me.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Does anybody else find it sort of unsettling that OJ Simpson is giving a 2 hour interview about how, if he had killed Nicole Brown, here's how he would have done it?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/1....ap/index.html

Yes, but I more by the $3.5 million ReganBooks is giving him for his book telling how he would have done it than by the fact of interview.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by nononono
Where I am, the ERISA people actually have cooperative study groups, for God's sake.

This is generally true all over. But then, I rarely worked on deals where the opposing counsel was in the same city. In any event, I think the pleasantness stems from things being so heavily regulated. The only things that would make me irritated were crappy or mean (in the sense of totally screwing employees) business decisions, and that wasn't ever anything to do with opposing counsel. On the crappy business decisions, both sides of counsel were usually in agreement about the crappiness.

I would think maybe anti-trust would be the same way?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ironweed
And rent's too fucking high. Or else I would be working in the post office.

I am a dumbass, but I have made peace with my dumbassity. For now.

You don't have to accept it. I hear you about the rent being high thing. I actually had an odd love/hate relationship with law I think a lot of the litigators who post here have.

You're a smart guy, people tell you you'd make a good lawyer, and you know how to write. For a reason that eludes you in hindsight, you didn't go into finance or sales, though you probably could have done well at either (well, maybe not finance). Anyway, you find yourself working around a lot of tools in the law. Not nerds, because nerds are interesting - no, these are tools. Rotten, craven chickenshit types. So you stick it out. You get better at it, start making a few bucks at it and develop a "fuck them, I'm going to make it at their game and still not be part of their shitass 'law as life' world..."

Then you wake up one day and realize that game's pretty fucking dumb, and struggling to succeed at something you hate - to become like the largely wretched people who make this jobs their lives - just ain't worth it.

I've given up any pride I had at "making it" in law.* I'm in Less's world, and will soon be even further from law than he is. I realize the past ten years that I've spent bitching about this job and the people who do it were silly. I can't get them back, but I'll tell you this - getting off the merry go round... psychologically giving up the need to "win" a brass ring I never wanted out of anger and disgust at all the amoral curs around me who profit in this business is really nice.

The idea of turning into one of these miserable suits and effectively depriving my kid of my actual personality is nauseating. We're all too self-actualized for the law. But you knew that already.

* This doesn't mean I ain't going to make money via law.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Are all of these "lawyers suck" comments coming from litigators?

Lawyers don't suck; people suck.

I have had cases with opposing counsel who act like weed's opponent. I have had clients who want *me* to act like weed's opponent, and who have gotten pissy at me for declining. I had an administrative hearing before a board yesterday where one of the board members mocked my client and yelled at me. I have had judges confess that they weren't interested in knowing what the controlling statute said.

That being said, most lawyers I've opposed (even those from TCOTU, Chicago, and Miami -- three cities generally viewed by lawyers from elsewhere as being full of asshole litigators) have been reasonably tolerable, most clients get past their frustration and play by the rules, and most judges try to follow the law.

I think that there are assholes in every profession. In representing Piggly-Wiggly, I've occasionally handled cases other than slip and falls. People in the non legal world also have an amazing aptitude for thinking up creative ways to fuck people over.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You don't have to accept it. I hear you about the rent being high thing. I actually had an odd love/hate relationship with law I think a lot of the litigators who post here have.

You're a smart guy, people tell you you'd make a good lawyer, and you know how to write. For a reason that eludes you in hindsight, you didn't go into finance or sales, though you probably could have done well at either (well, maybe not finance). Anyway, you find yourself working around a lot of tools in the law. Not nerds, because nerds are interesting - no, these are tools. Rotten, craven chickenshit types. So you stick it out. You get better at it, start making a few bucks at it and develop a "fuck them, I'm going to make it at their game and still not be part of their shitass 'law as life' world..."

Then you wake up one day and realize that game's pretty fucking dumb, and struggling to succeed at something you hate - to become like the largely wretched people who make this jobs their lives - just ain't worth it.

I've given up any pride I had at "making it." I'm in Less's world, and will soon be even further from law than he is. I realize the past ten years that I've spent bitching about this job and the people who do it were silly. I can't get them back, but I'll tell you this - getting off the merry go round... psychologically giving up the need to "win" a brass ring I never wanted out of anger and disgust at all the amoral curs around me who profit in this business is really nice.

The idea of turning into one of these miserable suits and effectively depriving my kid of my actual personality is nauseating. We're all too self-actualized for the law. But you knew that already.

Did Sebby really just say "self-actualized"?

My neighbors are getting the concrete for their pool poured today. This is noisy and is making me cranky.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Does anybody else find it sort of unsettling that OJ Simpson is giving a 2 hour interview about how, if he had killed Nicole Brown, here's how he would have done it?

Yes. And even more offensive that someone would air the interview and publish the book. It's no different than showing a snuff film.

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Lawyers don't suck; people suck.

I have had cases with opposing counsel who act like weed's opponent. I have had clients who want *me* to act like weed's opponent, and who have gotten pissy at me for declining. I had an administrative hearing before a board yesterday where one of the board members mocked my client and yelled at me. I have had judges confess that they weren't interested in knowing what the controlling statute said.

That being said, most lawyers I've opposed (even those from TCOTU, Chicago, and Miami -- three cities generally viewed by lawyers from elsewhere as being full of asshole litigators) have been reasonably tolerable, most clients get past their frustration and play by the rules, and most judges try to follow the law.

I think that there are assholes in every profession. In representing Piggly-Wiggly, I've occasionally handled cases other than slip and falls. People in the non legal world also have an amazing aptitude for thinking up creative ways to fuck people over.

But, a certain type of personality is drawn to the law.

I ride the train with a girl from another large firm. The managing partner had a floater [his current secretary plays the cancer card and takes 2 hour lunches and admin can't do shit] who was a shitty floater, and fucked up 2 phone messages. She had a mother in a nursing home with Alzheimer's that was not doing so well. So he asked the girl from my train what her name was so he could report her. When my friend defended her explaining about the mom, his response was "Well. she shouldn't be working in a law firm then if she has so many problems" I was like WTF??? I am a big fan of check that shit at the door re: personal problems but that was gratiously mean. Especially in view of the fact that his current secty he lets get away with bloody fing murder.

I told her "Ya know, I think that most attys even the "nice" ones would run you over to protect their own self interest and sell you out in a heart beat it's so sad"

on the other hand I sort of agreed with the guy which signifies I've been doing this too long. check that shit at the door and how hard is it to get someone's name right? wtf indeed.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
No, I do M&A. M&A lawyers, and corporate lawyers generally, suck ass and they are obsequious boot-lickers who are painfully aware that they only get to play with their betters' money and then take their frustrations out non-clients.

So far as I can tell, however, ERISA lawyers do not suck ass. They seem to have their heads screwed on pretty straight. Other than the whole ERISA thing, of course.

You should come out West. We're nicer out here since we all got Google options and drive priuseseseses. The pot helps too.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Yes. And even more offensive that someone would air the interview and publish the book. It's no different than showing a snuff film.

It's also a pretty big "fuck you" to the jury. You'd think he would be more appreciative.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by patentparanyc
But, a certain type of personality is drawn to the law.

The medical term is malignant.