Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Not Me
Will saying "BJ in oval office" or "vaginally placed cigar" cut it?

the hate is what outed the BJ and cigar.
i think it both directions it starts with a perception of the individual being a cheap transparent liar, and a disbelief the public can't see through it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Happy to explain the antipathy, but then you get to explain the visceral anti-Hilary sentiment held by many Republicans.

For me, these two represent elitist macho white male culture at its worst. Yes, they are intelligent, but they exude a set of self-righteous, xenophobic and chauvinist cultural values that disturb me.

It what you mean is they are of an older generation, that is some cold shit to say to Bilmore.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Explain to me, on the same basis, the far-more-virulent antipathy for Clinton. Hint: saying he wasn't "center-left" won't cut it.

Never got that, either. Maybe he was hated because he had lots of sex, and Rummy and Cheney are hated because they look like they never get any?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Happy to explain the antipathy, but then you get to explain the visceral anti-Hilary sentiment held by many Republicans.

Can't, unless it's guys who are very threatened by sharp chicks.

For me, these two represent elitist macho white male culture at its worst. Yes, they are intelligent, but they exude a set of self-righteous, xenophobic and chauvinist cultural values that disturb me.

"Exude" just doesn't bring me closer to understanding. And, how are they more self-righteous about their values than passionate Democrats?

(I was reminded by e.m. that one is self-righteous about the wrong values, and committed and passionate to the right values. YMMV.)

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
It what you mean is they are of an older generation, that is some cold shit to say to Bilmore.

FYI, having Googled, I am NOT a boomer.

So there.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Happy to explain the antipathy, but then you get to explain the visceral anti-Hilary sentiment held by many Republicans.

I can chime in on this one, although I don't hate her anymore for reasons I will get to. Republicans hate Hillary because (1) she was a strong woman, who (2) inserted herself into a very high position in the whitehouse without (3) ever being elected to any office, or (4) ever holding an appointed governmental position and (5) nevertheless acted like she was a know-it-all from her ivory tower. The rolling of her eyes at the SOTU after 9/11 didn't help this any.

I know longer hate Hillary because she has shown herself to be, by all accounts, a hard working, serious Senator, who is now accountable to the people and who has become far more thoughtful/less ideological. I still hate her policies, though they have moved closer to the center (and closer to Billy's).*

*Notwithstanding this, if she ever runs for president I and every other republican I know will unload our wallets in support of her opponent, whomever that may be.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by bilmore

Honestly, I have never understood the antipathy people seem to have for both of these guys. They're both brilliant and accomplished people, with views that aren't far off center-right.

They're a pair of policy wonks. Cheney was a lousy CEO at Halliburton. The only thing he brought the company was govt business, which was solely as a result of political ties. Same goes for Rummy. Neither one of these guys made their bones on the street. They played the DC circuit. That makes them very bright and shrewd, but not "brilliant" as the word is traditionally understood. The only political operator I can say was brilliant in my lifetime was Clinton. He came in as an outsider and worked everybody like bitches. He'd eat Rummy, Cheney, Bush, Rice and every last one of the oval office candyasses for lunch in any debate on any subject. I except Powell from the group because I think Powell is actually a lot fucking smarter than he lets on.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Not Me
Will saying "BJ in oval office" or "vaginally placed cigar" cut it?

for 1999 on. But you're left with 1992-1998.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
They're a pair of policy wonks. Cheney was a lousy CEO at Halliburton. The only thing he brought the company was govt business, which was solely as a result of political ties. Same goes for Rummy. Neither one of these guys made their bones on the street. They played the DC circuit. That makes them very bright and shrewd, but not "brilliant" as the word is traditionally understood. The only political operator I can say was brilliant in my lifetime was Clinton. He came in as an outsider and worked everybody like bitches. He'd eat Rummy, Cheney, Bush, Rice and every last one of the oval office candyasses for lunch in any debate on any subject. I except Powell from the group because I think Powell is actually a lot fucking smarter than he lets on.

I would love to see an SB v. SEF match-up.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I can chime in on this one, although I don't hate her anymore for reasons I will get to. Republicans hate Hillary because (1) she was a strong woman, who (2) inserted herself into a very high position in the whitehouse without (3) ever being elected to any office, or (4) ever holding an appointed governmental position and (5) nevertheless acted like she was a know-it-all from her ivory tower.

Agreed and add that those of us who are feminist Reps hated the fact that she got her power through her husband's elected positions.

I am not saying she didn't play a role in his getting elected. She is smarter than he is and I am sure that she played a role in steering his career. But it really chafes those of us who got our positions in life by ourselves, not through the man in our life.

Originally posted by sgtclub
I know longer hate Hillary because she has shown herself to be, by all accounts, a hard working, serious Senator, who is now accountable to the people and who has become far more thoughtful/less ideological.

However, I still hate that she got that Senate seat because her husband was an ex-president. No one would have ever elected her to such a high political office as her first office if she hadn't been married to an ex-president.

For all her feminist talk, she sure did get her power in life because of who she was married to.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me
But it really chafes those of us who got our positions in life by ourselves . . .

I got to my present position in life solely through my own merit.

This is a tragic condemnation of the state of my merit.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Me
For all her feminist talk, she sure did get her power in life because of who she was married to.

You prefer presidents who got where they were because of the sperm they come from rather than for, aye?

[Not Me]

The other reason I hate Hillary is because she stayed with cheating Billy. No woman with an ounce of self-respect would put up with repeated philandering. Any woman who forgives a man more than once for that kind of behavior is a pathetic loser.

Unless, of course, she is a lesbian and has lesbian lovers to keep her happy and she only stayed with Bill for political reasons. Which, if true (and I do think it is plausible*) then it doesn't bother me that she stayed with him.

*I mean, she did go to Wellesley afterall

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Not Me
The other reason I hate Hillary is because she stayed with cheating Billy. No woman with an ounce of self-respect would put up with repeated philandering. Any woman who forgives a man more than once for that kind of behavior is a pathetic loser.

Unless, of course, she is a lesbian and has lesbian lovers to keep her happy and she only stayed with Bill for political reasons. Which, if true (and I do think it is plausible*) then it doesn't bother me that she stayed with him.

*I mean, she did go to Wellesley afterall

Your case would be more convincing if she'd gone to Smith.

So, when can she safely divorce him? After running for president?

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
You prefer presidents who got where they were because of the sperm they come from rather than for, aye?

Speaking of Clinton sperm, anyone care to venture a guess on how many times Bill and Hillary did it together?

Again speaking of Clinton sperm, can anyone explain why Chelsea is so ugly? I mean neither Bill nor Hillary are that ugly. Bill is OK looking and Hillary got better looking as she got older (although man did her ass get big, too). How, though, did they have a daughter together who is that hard to look at?