General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by pretermitted_child
One of the things that I cannot understand is the behavior of New Yorkers on elevators. Normally, New Yorkers are rushing past you on the street, on the escalators down to the subway, etc. These same New Yorkers, when they are in an elevator, appear to completely change their perspective on civility: If people pile into an elevator, and if some women are standing in the back and some men are standing in the front, when the elevator reaches the ground floor, the men do not get off first but try to stand to the side WITHIN the crowded elevator to let the women out first. This typically results in some awkward shuffling and needless delay while the women push their way out from the back of the elevator to get out first. Whenever this happens, I usually want to scream at the top of my lungs to the men who are standing aside: "Get the fuck out of the damn elevator first you retards!" Have New Yorkers simply not heard of the "Last In, First Out" method of exiting from crowded elevators?

The men stand aside so that they can check out the women's asses.

S_A_M

[Trepidation_Mom]

To further my observations on the "New Yorkers are savages" phenomenon -

On Friday evening, after a day of running about the office, I actually decided it would be nice to sit on the way home. So I noted a partially empty seat, with a woman on one side and a guy on the other spilling over onto the vacant seat in the middle with his unfolded WSJ. So I waddled over and pointed at the semi-vacant seat and asked "may I sit down?"

The guy folded down his paper, looked dead at me and said "there's no room."

The woman on the other side had the decency to look shocked and glared at him, but certainly didn't offer to get up.

Need I mention that these were the 3 seats on the train prominently designated as reserved for the elderly/disabled/someone-with-a-reason-to-sit-other-than-sheer-laziness?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
On Friday evening, after a day of running about the office, I actually decided it would be nice to sit on the way home. So I noted a partially empty seat, with a woman on one side and a guy on the other spilling over onto the vacant seat in the middle with his unfolded WSJ. So I waddled over and pointed at the semi-vacant seat and asked "may I sit down?"

The guy folded down his paper, looked dead at me and said "there's no room."

The woman on the other side had the decency to look shocked and glared at him, but certainly didn't offer to get up.

Need I mention that these were the 3 seats on the train prominently designated as reserved for the elderly/disabled/someone-with-a-reason-to-sit-other-than-sheer-laziness?

I hope you sat down anyway.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I hope you sat down anyway.

Of course, ze asked the wrong question. It's not "may I sit down", but "is that your newspaper" If not, then you can move it to the ground; if so, then you ask them to move it or do it yourself.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
New York story.

Egad. Desmond Morris did a PBS-type thing about zoological study of human behavior. One of the things he did was compare human interaction and etiquette in an African village of, say, 50 people to the same behaviors in Manhattan. He concluded that the only way humans can deal with that level of population density was to ignore the presence of other humans. To a person walking the streets of Manhattan, other people are merely trees; i.e., obstructions to navigation, albeit moving ones.

You should have punched that tree right in the nuts.

ETA: I remember Morris's central thesis was that humans evolved in bands of 150 or fewer, and our social behaviors, whether in Africa or Manhattan, are designed to keep the number of people with whom we interact to around that number. Savages indeed. Sadly, I can't find the program on DVD anywhere, but the books are widely available, starting with The Naked Ape.

[pretermitted_child]

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
So I waddled over and pointed at the semi-vacant seat and asked "may I sit down?"

New Yorkers don't understand phrases that start with "May I . . ." Instead, you're supposed to growl "Excuse Me" in a threatening tone, and, without waiting for a response, just plop yourself down.

[ltl/fb]

OK, regarding elevators, there just needs to be an understood rule for things to work. If an elevator is crowded and people in the back need to get off on an earlier floor than people toward the front, what do people do? They rearrange and possibly even get off the elevator to allow the people leaving the elevator to get out. There is a related rule that operates under the women-get-off-first* system: if the elevator is too crowded to comfortably rearrange within the elevator to allow women off first (and everyone, for the sake of argument, is getting off at the same floor, e.g. when going down at the end of the day), then blocking men get off and hold the edge of the elevator door as if they are holding open the door. This also gives them a good vantage point to see the women walk by.

Busses: the woman who was offended by the guy should have shoved over into the seat he was blocking with his rudely-held-open newspaper. I will try to remember this in the unlikely event I am ever on a bus or other public transport thingy that is crowded.

And New Yorkers are savages. Anyone who can't do something if asked instead of ordered is seriously fucked up. No offense. OK, offense.

*I love this system in so many contexts!

[pretermitted_child]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
There is a related rule that operates under the women-get-off-first* system: if the elevator is too crowded to comfortably rearrange within the elevator to allow women off first (and everyone, for the sake of argument, is getting off at the same floor, e.g. when going down at the end of the day), then blocking men get off and hold the edge of the elevator door as if they are holding open the door. This also gives them a good vantage point to see the women walk by.

Most of the time, the men in the front do NOT get out of the elevator at all but attempt to re-shuffle. This women-first system in the world of elevators is truly incongruous in a place like New York where most men will NOT offer their seats to women on a bus or on a subway car. What is it about elevators that every man has to suddenly display some form of simple-minded chivalry?

And New Yorkers are savages. Anyone who can't do something if asked instead of ordered is seriously fucked up. No offense. OK, offense.

Indeed, you need an event that is as catastrophic as 9/11 to cause them to de-savage, albeit temporarily.

*I love this system in so many contexts!

Women should get over such expectations (e.g., having people open doors for them or yield right of way). The reshuffling and delay involved in allowing women to go first is, in my opinion, inefficient because people usually get in my way while doing so.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
ETA: I remember Morris's central thesis was that humans evolved in bands of 150 or fewer, and our social behaviors, whether in Africa or Manhattan, are designed to keep the number of people with whom we interact to around that number. Savages indeed. Sadly, I can't find the program on DVD anywhere, but the books are widely available, starting with The Naked Ape.

I suppose you think this justifies your behavior towards newbies on fashion. you and 149 of your friend can post. the rest of us are asshats!!!

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by pretermitted_child
Women should get over such expectations (e.g., having people open doors for them or yield right of way). The reshuffling and delay involved in allowing women to go first is, in my opinion, inefficient because people usually get in my way while doing so.

No, not having a settled system is inefficient. If you know that the system is women-off-first, and everyone cooperates in it, you* (as a woman) are poised to hop off the elevator toot sweet as soon as the doors open. If the system is "those closest to the door get off first" then you,* as a woman, wait your turn.

In NYC, it sounds like the problem is that people simply do not clear the doorways. Shocking. This is different from there being collisions because men in the front are getting off as women in the back are rushing to clear the way for men.

And the "woman comes first" thing was a gratuitous sexual reference, silly.

*"you" meaning generic you, not you yourself.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I suppose you think this justifies your behavior towards newbies on fashion. you and 149 of your friend can post. the rest of us are asshats!!!

[NW Native]

Anyone else think this thread has mutated to something that more rightly belongs on FB?

OP related somewhat to pregnancy. Shouldn't there be some rule like at least every 10th post in the thread has to relate back to 'mom & dad, esq.' issue in some way?

Of course, if you want to talk rude people on public transport, I've found Boston to be much worse than NYC.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by NW Native
Anyone else think this thread has mutated to something that more rightly belongs on FB?

Bringing sanity back to the Parents' Board:

A poll:

How many stitches does your kid have to get before you take him or her out for a smoothie on the way home from the hospital? I'm standing at five, but he thinks that's unreasonable, that it's the trip and the novacain shots that count, while I point out to him that he'd be breaking the bank at his recent rate of visits.

(Just three this time, and three last time, but eight the time before, so he'd still be doing okay with my system.)

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by bilmore
Bringing sanity back to the Parents' Board:

A poll:

How many stitches does your kid have to get before you take him or her out for a smoothie on the way home from the hospital? I'm standing at five, but he thinks that's unreasonable, that it's the trip and the novacain shots that count, while I point out to him that he'd be breaking the bank at his recent rate of visits.

(Just three this time, and three last time, but eight the time before, so he'd still be doing okay with my system.)

Seems like the number ought to go up each time. And if he doesn't meet the threshold, a lecture on health-care economics is in order instead.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
The men stand aside so that they can check out the women's asses. S_A_M

I can't believe you check out pregnant women's asses. :butt:

On the helping-those-with-strollers thing, I have such empathy for those still schlepping their babes around in those heavy "buckets" that go into the car seat. Maybe some will disagree and think it's intrusive, but I think the best thing to do is jump in and help without asking. When I'm out without the Babe and see someone about to do the insert-groceries-and-baby-into-car-seat dance, I just bound over and without asking start grabbing bags, collapsing the stroller and loading it in, saying, "give me the keys; I'll get the car started heating." I've never had one person object. I wonder why we don't see more people doing this. It takes all of 2 minutes. What's the big deal?

Vietmom
(Enjoying the salad days of rearing the 18 month old in the dream stage)