A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's not so true any more.

The hell it isn't. If you hire a French citizen in France, it is almost impossible to get rid of them. Hence the high unemployment rate among French citizens. Same as Germany etc.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Publicity. Stunt.

I am sorry but that was pretty cool (publicity stunt or not).

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Publicity. Stunt.

Doesn't. Matter.

Hank

isn't he an asshole for saying it in the first place?

Only if you also think Bush was for making fun of a blind reporter's sunglasses.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Wonk, other than people who do what you do losing their jobs, and the hyperrich losing tax breaks, what's the main argument against a flat tax? Why don't liberals want it (other than it would eliminate half their platform of perpetually seeking economic "parity")?

Never underestimate the power of the two impediments you noted. It's not me or the people like me. It's people like Bill Frist and Dick Armey and Ken Kies who have built up careers on the ability to pass, defeat, or influence legisltation that can make or break businesses. And as for tax breaks for the rich folk, who do you think makes tha campaign contributions those guys run on?

The main objection liberals have is that all the current proposals for a flat tax would exempt capital gains and many would exempt dividend and interest income. If it doesn't tax all receipts, it isn't a flat tax.

Of course, if you go one step further, like I have with my proposal and make the flat tax a negative tax, then you would put almost 70% of Washington and the State governements out of work. How would we cope with all the unemployed bureaucrats who no longer have unemployment, welfare, AFDC, food stamps, social security, etc. to administer?

A true flat tax will never pass because it is too democratic. It can't be gamed. Nobody gets an advantage. Nobody gets to punish enemies. Nobody can trade tax breaks for votes.

That kind of shit is just un-American.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the people who are losing the jobs don't want to pay the higher prices that would require. Catch 22.

I drive an "American" car (made in Windsor). I think our computers are made here, aren't they? I drink California wine.

just as an aside, I don't think $10/hr manufacturing jobs are that rare here- I think you can find them.

I live between Aurora and Joliet. Caterpillar has plants in both places. Joilet is hiring at about $12/hour. Aurora isn't. You can't transfer to Joilet if you've been laid off in Aurora.

There are jobs, but finding them, especially if you don't have a reliable car, is often harder than it should be, and there are all kinds of quirks. I'd like to think you're right about work being not too hard to find, but anecdotal and empirical evidence aren't running in your favor.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Never underestimate the power of the two impediments you noted. It's not me or the people like me. It's people like Bill Frist and Dick Armey and Ken Kies who have built up careers on the ability to pass, defeat, or influence legisltation that can make or break businesses. And as for tax breaks for the rich folk, who do you think makes tha campaign contributions those guys run on?

The main objection liberals have is that all the current proposals for a flat tax would exempt capital gains and many would exempt dividend and interest income. If it doesn't tax all receipts, it isn't a flat tax.

Of course, if you go one step further, like I have with my proposal and make the flat tax a negative tax, then you would put almost 70% of Washington and the State governements out of work. How would we cope with all the unemployed bureaucrats who no longer have unemployment, welfare, AFDC, food stamps, social security, etc. to administer?

A true flat tax will never pass because it is too democratic. It can't be gamed. Nobody gets an advantage. Nobody gets to punish enemies. Nobody can trade tax breaks for votes.

That kind of shit is just un-American.

Do you really think it is good for the economy that someone who makes a million dollars a year pays $300,000 in taxes when some who makes twenty thousand a year pays $6,000?

Wouldn't it be better to have the seven figure guy pay $400,000 and the twenty thousand dollars guy pay $4,000? Isn't that more fair and better for the economy.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Spanky
The hell it isn't. If you hire a French citizen in France, it is almost impossible to get rid of them. Hence the high unemployment rate among French citizens. Same as Germany etc.

I see you've conveniently ignored the rest of my post, explaining why it's become less of a factor in EU economics.

I hope that works for you in real life better than it does here.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Wonk, other than people who do what you do losing their jobs, and the hyperrich losing tax breaks, what's the main argument against a flat tax? Why don't liberals want it (other than it would eliminate half their platform of perpetually seeking economic "parity")?

My Dad lives mostly on a military pension and social security - he doesn't pay much in taxes. If you go flat taxing him with a 20+% rate, he's going to want to come move in with me.

This is a very bad idea.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Spanky
Do you really think it is good for the economy that someone who makes a million dollars a year pays $300,000 in taxes when some who makes twenty thousand a year pays $6,000?

Wouldn't it be better to have the seven figure guy pay $400,000 and the twenty thousand dollars guy pay $4,000? Isn't that more fair and better for the economy.

Actually, under my plan as I described it, the $1 Million guy would pay between $100,000 and $150,000 and the $20,000 guy would get a $5,000 payment from the gov't., with up to $15,000 more at $5,000 per child up to the max. I think that's more fair and far better for the economy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
My Dad lives mostly on a military pension and social security - he doesn't pay much in taxes. If you go flat taxing him with a 20+% rate, he's going to want to come move in with me.

This is a very bad idea.

He could move in with Spanky. Win-win!

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Actually, under my plan as I described it, the $1 Million guy would pay between $100,000 and $150,000 and the $20,000 guy would get a $5,000 payment from the gov't., with up to $15,000 more at $5,000 per child up to the max. I think that's more fair and far better for the economy.

How could that possibly bring in enough revenue?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
How could that possibly bring in enough revenue?

If you cut taxes for the poor and middle class, the tax cuts pay for themselves eventually by promoting growth.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I see you've conveniently ignored the rest of my post, explaining why it's become less of a factor in EU economics.

I hope that works for you in real life better than it does here.

The rest of your post seemed obviously irrelvent to me.

I don't see how bringing in guest workers effects the sitatuion I described at all. If it is hard to fire a French citizen in France then you don't want to hire a French citizen. That creates unemployment among French citizens.

How does allowing guest workers to come in ameliorate that situation. It wouldn't effect it at all except possilby insentivising French companys even less to hire French citizens?

Which still proves my point by trying to protect French jobs (and creating economic security) the French government is creating massive unemployment.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If you cut taxes for the poor and middle class, the tax cuts pay for themselves eventually by promoting growth.

Depends on where you are on the Laffer Curve. Cutting taxes ten percent when you are taxing the citizenry up to forty percent (when you combine all taxes) of their income makes sense. But isn't TaxWonk talking about cutting Federal taxes in half? Actually I don't think TaxWonk is actually proposing cutting federal taxes in half, I just don't think I understand completely what he is proposing.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
He could move in with Spanky. Win-win!

He can feed the Deer.