Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
To each his own. However, don't scowl at or denigrate the guy who wants to have a good time. Life's short brother and this gig stinks - I'm just trying to grab the good times while I'm young and they're plenty. Should I be villified for that?

Who's villifying you? Most of the posters here seem to agree that our profession -- present company excluded, of course -- is full of anal-retentive dullards who take the law too seriously and wouldn't know a good time if it hit them in the face at 250 knots.

What I don't get is why the fun-loving types here who hate their jobs but soldier to get the scratch to live large the rest of the time have such a chip on the shoulder about those of us who actually like practicing law. I'll admit, I like it. If I could think of something else I thought I'd like more, I'd do that instead, but I haven't yet. Doesn't mean I'm serious all the time at work, or that I don't try to have some fun when I'm not working. I prefer working with the fun-loving types than the anal-retentive dullards because they're more fun to be around, but I'd rather work with other people who enjoy life *and* enjoy practicing law.

I think the law is full of people who aren't happy with their existence because they went straight from college to law school before they figured out what they wanted to do with their lives -- they were too cautious to take a chance on actually being out of school for a little while without a plan. They took a job with a large firm because it was the safe thing to do, and know they're unhappy but stuck wearing the golden handcuffs. These people tend to be a drag, unless they're compensating really hard by abusing ilicit substances, etc., in which case they can be amusing. When dealing with other law students and lawyers, it's best to try to identify these people quickly and stay the hell away from them. There are some people who went straight through who are OK, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
What I don't get is why the fun-loving types here who hate their jobs but soldier to get the scratch to live large the rest of the time have such a chip on the shoulder about those of us who actually like practicing law.

I like it. I don't like the alpha-dog crap some lawyers pull--next time some pig tries to intimidate me by leaning over a table in a red-faced schoolyard-bully rage over something that could be handled civilly I'm gonna have to assume he's just rabid and yank out the pepper spray. But it's a fairly interesting intellectual exercise with potential to do some cool work if you try hard enough.

And I have no sympathy for the overpaid assholes making $200k a year bitching about tough their lives are that I overhear at every bar function. They could be equally well-educated with a master's and teaching ill-behaved little bastards in a crappy school for no thanks and $35k, so they can shut the hell up.

Originally posted by purse junkie And I have no sympathy for the overpaid assholes making $200k a year bitching about tough their lives are that I overhear at every bar function. They could be equally well-educated with a master's and teaching ill-behaved little bastards in a crappy school for no thanks and $35k, so they can shut the hell up.

Well said.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by purse junkie
And I have no sympathy for the overpaid assholes making $200k a year bitching about tough their lives are

I thought that was the purpose of these boards to some extent.

gwn(overpaid asshole)c

p.s. I like practicing law too. If I didn't, I'd do something else or not work at all and mooch off my husband. I reserve the right to bitch about it once in a while though.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by Lexus Talionis
I'm flattered. But as for the rest of your advice, jeez, wouldn't it just be simpler to hold somebody else's kid until it pukes on me and then hand it back? Your solutions all sound like work.

Well, I meant that your comments about your crazy biological clock remind me of that womam, not your ass. She has this cute little ass, small waist, firm, medium-sized breasts and a cute face. Post some pictures of yourself and I will prepare a report. Or a fantasy.

[Mister_Ruysbroeck]

I hate practicing law. I am looking for a way to get out as soon as possible. It is mostly the asshole partners I've dealt with that are driving me away, as well as the unethical billing practices of most law firms. Plus, I just hate having that billable hours requirement hanging over my head. It's a shitty way to make a living. (IMHO).

:brick:

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
[1] What I don't get is why the fun-loving types here who hate their jobs but soldier to get the scratch to live large the rest of the time have such a chip on the shoulder about those of us who actually like practicing law. I'll admit, I like it. If I could think of something else I thought I'd like more, I'd do that instead, but I haven't yet.

* * *

[2] I think the law is full of people who aren't happy with their existence because they went straight from college to law school before they figured out what they wanted to do with their lives -- they were too cautious to take a chance on actually being out of school for a little while without a plan.

As to point 1, I don't sense resentment towards people who like their jobs. The resentment is towards the dullards who make it such an unpleasant profession even for those who might otherwise like it. To the contrary, I wish I liked my job as much as some other people manage to, although I think it would take a different person to like it that much. The kind of person who, most often, are the dullards we scorn.

The problem generally is is that the legal profession, or at least larger firms, require a lot of rather dull work done with exacting attention to detail. People who actually like to do that stuff can thrive, because there's so much of it to do. They stay around. Many of hte rest leave. (I once had a partner extol the virtues of bluebooking because "if you spend enough time you can get it exactly perfect.")

Then there are the people who like practicing law in principal, because there's a decent amount of intellectual challenge (or, in some practice areas, dealmaking challenge, which isn't always purely intellectual), which is what smart, driven people want (and probably why they kept going to school). The more of that you can get, the more one will enjoy the job. But, when you're not getting that work, law quickly becomes a miserable job again. (And this is my problem).

As to point 2, I don't think it's the "going straight through" problem. The problem is that law, and law school, attracts intelligent people who rather like intellectual challenge and stimulation. There's a decent amount of that in law school. It just fades away, though, as soon as one starts work. Sure, some remains, but a lot disappears. If you can find other ways to make the job enjoyable, that's great, but that's not always easy.

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
What I don't get is why the fun-loving types here who hate their jobs but soldier to get the scratch to live large the rest of the time have such a chip on the shoulder about those of us who actually like practicing law. I'll admit, I like it. If I could think of something else I thought I'd like more, I'd do that instead, but I haven't yet. Doesn't mean I'm serious all the time at work, or that I don't try to have some fun when I'm not working. I prefer working with the fun-loving types than the anal-retentive dullards because they're more fun to be around, but I'd rather work with other people who enjoy life *and* enjoy practicing law.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I wasn't saying that I don't like practicing. I like it, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. What I don't like are people who think that being a lawyer means that you have to be a total fucking tool all the time. I think those people are possibly insecure and think that being an asshole makes people respect them or something -- in my experience, the biggest yellers and cretins are people (partners too) who don't know as much as they want everyone to think they do so they cover it with shitting on people. The problem is that some people (and clients) buy into this and think that the guy who is a jerk is the best lawyer. Now that I am a client, I refuse to hire/work with these people and I have more than once told a partner privately that I thought he was an ass to opposing counsel or his own associate (ahhhh, the power).

A person can be conscientious about work (a bit anal even) and still not be a tightass. Nobody likes to work with someone who crawled out from under a social rock. How do you find clients if you are a jerk? Clients may like you being an ass to opposing counsel (not me though) but they don't want you to be like that with them.

Next thing you know the tightasses of the world will be insisting that "casual Friday" does not equate to "underwear optional." SHEESH

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I thought that was the purpose of these boards to some extent.

gwn(overpaid asshole)c

Which is why I tend to ignore the city/regional boards, where people get into snitty arguments over whose firm is more prestigious or how crappy that their bonus only equalled their secretary's annual salary (until they all started whining about their imploding firms' lousy 6 month severance packages).

But I wasn't insulting you personally. You, I think, are just overpaid.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Who's villifying you? Most of the posters here seem to agree that our profession -- present company excluded, of course -- is full of anal-retentive dullards who take the law too seriously and wouldn't know a good time if it hit them in the face at 250 knots.

What I don't get is why the fun-loving types here who hate their jobs but soldier to get the scratch to live large the rest of the time have such a chip on the shoulder about those of us who actually like practicing law. I'll admit, I like it. If I could think of something else I thought I'd like more, I'd do that instead, but I haven't yet. Doesn't mean I'm serious all the time at work, or that I don't try to have some fun when I'm not working. I prefer working with the fun-loving types than the anal-retentive dullards because they're more fun to be around, but I'd rather work with other people who enjoy life *and* enjoy practicing law.

I think the law is full of people who aren't happy with their existence because they went straight from college to law school before they figured out what they wanted to do with their lives -- they were too cautious to take a chance on actually being out of school for a little while without a plan. They took a job with a large firm because it was the safe thing to do, and know they're unhappy but stuck wearing the golden handcuffs. These people tend to be a drag, unless they're compensating really hard by abusing ilicit substances, etc., in which case they can be amusing. When dealing with other law students and lawyers, it's best to try to identify these people quickly and stay the hell away from them. There are some people who went straight through who are OK, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Slothy,

I don't dislike anyone for practicing law. There are times I dig it (when in court). I dig talking and being the center of attention and yep, sometimes I even dig fucking with people over arcane rules just because I get a kick out of getting away with things which i really shouldn't on the merits. But that gets old...

I dislike the stuffed shirt brigade that makes the profession so dull. I'm animated - I say shit in front of judges that most stuffed shirts (my bosses included) would never say. I think law needs an enema. I talk to judges like people and do everything with a collegial attitude. If most folks loosened up, this'd be a more fun job. I actually love arguing in court when the room's packed and I have a very animated adversary, but alas, they usually send some tool who reads his arguments from sheets on his desk. That's not an enlivened debate - he's not thinking on his feet at all. He's rehearsed and scared shitless, and he can rarely think on his feet, particularly when the judge backs him up. I love to shuck and jive and twist the argument upside down till I get what I want. Often, I get results based on preparedness coupled with a few ballsy jokes and some straight forward common sense. I wish everyone worked like me instead of being so fuckin uptight. Is this egomaniacal? You bet your ass it is. But as I said, I want to enjoy this ride, so fun's more important than the perception of genius that most nitwits try to convey.

S(think me stupid, crass, disrespectful and form over substance all you like... just gimme the win and the check)D

[Jack Manfred]

You can get "fantastic tickets for sale for the relocated Field Day festival - now happening at the Giants Stadium on June the 7th" according to the Radiohead website.

Here's a link to the website for the Field Day Fest Concert with updated information on the change of venue.

Radiohead's people claim that they "have secured the best tickets in the house for the fanbase....a small allotment of the best tickets available in Giant Stadium, a combination of GA Floor tickets and Reserved Seats."

Here's the link to Radiohead's website. Click on New York Ticket Sales and Info to get to the secure shopping site.

After all of this QOL discussion, I expect one of my East Coast brethren to go to the concert and report back.

[SlaveNoMore]

Jack Manfred
After all of this QOL discussion, I expect one of my East Coast brethren to go to the concert and report back.

I'm not shelling out $80 to stand in the rain, so, barring a weather change, I'm not taking this one for the team.

I wonder if they've cancelled Bonnaroo North as well.

not7yS

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Damn! And here I was thinking that you wined me and dined me because of my metrosexual charms.

Penske (disallusioned) Account

Where are my referrals? WHERE ARE MY REFERRALS?!?

It has been over a week now. Get off your pathetic ass and earn your fancy-ass appertizers and precious little Pacific Northwest microbrews.

(We did not discuss porn.)

[SlaveNoMore]

Pretty Little Flower
Where are my referrals? WHERE ARE MY REFERRALS?!?

There you go again.

All business - all the time.

not7yS

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
What I don't like are people who think that being a lawyer means that you have to be a total fucking tool all the time. I think those people are possibly insecure and think that being an asshole makes people respect them or something -- in my experience, the biggest yellers and cretins are people (partners too) who don't know as much as they want everyone to think they do so they cover it with shitting on people.

There are areas of the law where being smart doesn't help as much because the law is the law, and you've got to justify your rates somehow, and so the way to stand out from the competition is to be a bigger asshole. I think of insurance defense this way, but Less tells me I'm wrong. If I had to practice with adversaries like this all the time, the bad karma would wear me down and I'd have to find something else to do. But I find I can usually get along with opposing counsel. If in-house people like you stop sending the assholes work, that would help.

PJ's right about lawyers who complain about money. Anyone making $200K who complains about it should have a large cork inserted into their mouth for the rest of the evening.

And Sebby's right that most lawyers are too cautious. But it does kinda open up the field a little for those of us who are willing to go to court and say what we think.