All Hank, all the time.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ironweed
I didn't realize all the people at Guantanamo had been tried and convicted. I thought at least some were "detainees" awaiting . . . something. My bad.

IRA's been on ceasefire for years, Hank. Someone with such a comprehensive knowledge of Irish transvestite cinema should know this.

I don't know much about Hamas procedures (could never get through the first few pages of their manual), but they probably know as much about the people they're maiming and killing as U.S. military intelligence knows about the people they're sending to the 'stan-du-jour for extraordinary rendition, torture and death. Not that there's any way we could ever know, of course.

It's an inexact science. You're demanding adherence to much too high a standard.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by andViolins
Would you like to know who those animals are killing?



He was 16. Celebrating Passover in Israel visiting relatives. Having lunch with his father.

aV

Hey, hey, hey. We'll have none of that earnestness around here.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky
How about anything that is related to government only being in English. That means all public schools, ballots, any government issued document, etc. only in English.

People can speak or learn any language they like, but if they want to interface with anything paid for by tax dollars it has to be English.

Isn't that what the Senate is trying to do?

That seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.

Ah, so it's an effort to disenfranchise voters that don't speak English. Gotcha.

Figured as much.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ironweed
Maybe it's because some of us haven't stripped ourselves of the last remaining shreds of human decency and respect for the principles of justice -- which teach us that every human being, even the most vilified and scorned, should be considered innocent until proven guilty -- so as to wallow unencumbered in the comfortable and lazy self-righteousness that prevails at the intellectual and moral level of ignorant, bloodthirsty street mobs whipped into a frenzy by the lying demagogues who feed their members a steady diet of paranoid hatred?

Now that's just unfuckingfair. Some of us believe in those principles, and quite deeply I might add, but simply cannot summon the interest level in the subject to do anything.

Bush succeeds in a lot of what he's doing because its hard enough to make a fucking buck and get by these days. My disgust at so much around me is pretty much exhausted miles before I can get to the point of taking up a torch for a fundamentalist rotting in a Cuban prison. I think we should try them and make real efforts to root out the truly innocent and send them home.

But as to the Taliban who aren't AQ, but are still rotting in Gitmo, well, caveat fucking emptor. If you support people who shoot women in soccer stadiums and live like goddamned barbarians, you've no one to blame for your sad lot but your own dumb ass.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Ah, so it's an effort to disenfranchise voters that don't speak English. Gotcha.

Figured as much.

Oh, come on. That's a stretch and you know it. I think we should let every immigrant who wants to come here into the country. But the only way to really force us to interact is to give us one, ceremonial official language.

We can't have much of a metling pot if the different groups among us remain doggedly sectionalized by language barriers.

English was, is and always should be the primary language of this country.

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Now that's just unfuckingfair. Some of us believe in those principles, and quite deeply I might add, but simply cannot summon the interest level in the subject to do anything.

Bush succeeds in a lot of what he's doing because its hard enough to make a fucking buck and get by these days. My disgust at so much around me is pretty much exhausted miles before I can get to the point of taking up a torch for a fundamentalist rotting in a Cuban prison. I think we should try them and make real efforts to root out the truly innocent and send them home.

But as to the Taliban who aren't AQ, but are still rotting in Gitmo, well, caveat fucking emptor. If you support people who shoot women in soccer stadiums and live like goddamned barbarians, you've no one to blame for your sad lot but your own dumb ass.

Apparently everyone takes you deadly seriously on the Politics Board -- now I understand why Hank spends so much time here.

But if we're getting all earnest, and apparently we are, I guess I should lay out the following:

1. I wasn't asking you to do anything. It was a wind up (see below).
2. I was idly trying to spark a reaction from Hank with a purplish and overwrought run-on sentence.
3. I don't support any organization that kills innocent people for any reason.
4. Your caveat emptor assumes a lot. Al-Qaeda likes to say that we're the barbarians. They're wrong, because (among other things) our society is based on the rule of law and a fundamental respect for human rights. Lose that and it's he said/she said - "you're a terrorist," "no, you are bigger terrorist," "no, you are the biggest terrorist," etc.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Oh, come on. That's a stretch and you know it. I think we should let every immigrant who wants to come here into the country. But the only way to really force us to interact is to give us one, ceremonial official language.

We can't have much of a metling pot if the different groups among us remain doggedly sectionalized by language barriers.

English was, is and always should be the primary language of this country.

I'm not talking about immigrants. I'm talking about voters.

I don't know about where you come from, but where I come from the ballots are written in Spanish because the voters in the districts speak and read and write in Spanish*. And those voters are legitimate, registered voters who have just as much right to participate in government as anyone else. And they should not be barred from participating, or worse, not being fully informed when they do participate, because of the language barrier.

The democracy is not in jeapordy because the ballots are written in languages that the people who are making the decisions about how our country is run can understand. But the concept is certainly threatened when we start preventing people from meaningfully casting their ballots.

There are plenty of places in this country where English is not and has never been the primary language, and yet somehow the country hasn't fallen apart.

*and Vietnamese

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm not talking about immigrants. I'm talking about voters.

I don't know about where you come from, but where I come from the ballots are written in Spanish because the voters in the districts speak and read and write in Spanish*. And those voters are legitimate, registered voters who have just as much right to participate in government as anyone else. And they should not be barred from participating, or worse, not being fully informed when they do participate, because of the language barrier.

The democracy is not in jeapordy because the ballots are written in languages that the people who are making the decisions about how our country is run can understand. But the concept is certainly threatened when we start preventing people from meaningfully casting their ballots.

There are plenty of places in this country where English is not and has never been the primary language, and yet somehow the country hasn't fallen apart.

*and Vietnamese

I am more on your side than on the English-only side, but where is the line? Because there are a whole lotta languages out there.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
But as to the Taliban who aren't AQ, but are still rotting in Gitmo, well, caveat fucking emptor. If you support people who shoot women in soccer stadiums and live like goddamned barbarians, you've no one to blame for your sad lot but your own dumb ass.

What about the farmer who wasn't AQ or Taliban, but who happened to have a name similar to the chauffer for a AQ high commander? "Should have picked a different name, dude"?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I am more on your side than on the English-only side, but where is the line? Because there are a whole lotta languages out there.

In Texas, it's 5 percent.

Like I said, democracy hasn't fallen apart.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
In Texas, it's 5 percent.

Like I said, democracy hasn't fallen apart.

That's Spanish only -- what about other languages?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
That's Spanish only -- what about other languages?

Also 5 percent (or 10,000 native language speakers). Stems from the pesky Voting Right Act, which I assume Spanky, Sebby and the Senate want to get rid of.

See, Harris County's 2004 Language Assistance Report

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
On July 26, 2002 Harris County was notified of new Vietnamese language minority requirements that apply to all election related forms, voting instructions, etc. that are used to disseminate information to the general public. All official documents, affidavits, and especially ballot language must be translated into the appropriate language.

Language minority requirements are triggered based on a determination made by the United States Census Department. These determinations identify two possible criteria that may be met to require new language minority requirements, one is a population that makes up at least 5% of the jurisdiction or ten thousand individuals of a single language minority group possessing limited English proficiency. The latter criteria was used in the assessment of Harris County to trigger new Vietnamese language requirements in 2002.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Also 5 percent (or 10,000 native language speakers). Stems from the pesky Voting Right Act, which I assume Spanky, Sebby and the Senate want to get rid of.

See, Harris County's 2004 Language Assistance Report

Ok, um, but the law you linked to earlier was a Texas law, and this new thing is a federal law, and I'm confused about who is making the rules.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Ok, um, but the law you linked to earlier was a Texas law, and this new thing is a federal law, and I'm confused about who is making the rules.

The VRA, as far as I remember it, covers only federal elections. The state election code covers state elections. Most jurisdictions will do the same thing for both elections to eliminate paperwork and because it's easier than trying to remember which rules apply to which election.

Harris County didn't submit a language access report in 2005, because there weren't any federal elections in Harris County in 2005.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm not talking about immigrants. I'm talking about voters.

I don't know about where you come from, but where I come from the ballots are written in Spanish because the voters in the districts speak and read and write in Spanish*. And those voters are legitimate, registered voters who have just as much right to participate in government as anyone else. And they should not be barred from participating, or worse, not being fully informed when they do participate, because of the language barrier.

The democracy is not in jeapordy because the ballots are written in languages that the people who are making the decisions about how our country is run can understand. But the concept is certainly threatened when we start preventing people from meaningfully casting their ballots.

There are plenty of places in this country where English is not and has never been the primary language, and yet somehow the country hasn't fallen apart.

*and Vietnamese

I have no porblem with allowing ballots to be printed in any language so people can vote.

My problem is with the assumption that one can come here and not learn the native tongue. How do we assimilate if we don't share some common langauge. English is part of our nation's heritage. If I come to your house and you ask me to take off my shoes at the door, I can't say no. You'd rightly tell me to get the fuck out.

Yes, I am fully aware that was an awful analogy, but I've been up for days.

Where were we? Oh, yes... This country has a heritage, and its heritage is tolerance, but its heritage is also English. The English language is an identifying factor of being American. I think people living here should learn it. If I moved to France, I'd sure as shit learn French. Wouldn't you?

My immigrant forebears learned the native tongue. Why was it expected of them, but not expected today? I'll tell you why - because somewhere in the middle of the last century, we got goofy and soft and shitheaded.

The liberal ethos behind this "oh, we should all speak what we like, and we must accomodate everybody's differences" is softheaded horseshit thinking. We all need to get together, and part of that means speaking the same language. I don't know how to do that, but the common sense basis for doing it is irrefutable.