Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. - Page 67

SlaveNoMore · 10-01-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Shape Shifter
2, only the lie W told about there being 100,000-strong force of trained Iraqis to take over Iraqi security. The man can't open his mouth without telling a lie.

Did he say "fully" trained?

Not Me · 10-01-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Islam is the problem.

Iraq was secular.

Now its full of Islam.

We did that.

Exactly. Now the islamic terrorists blow up Iraqi children on Arab soil, not our children on US soil. The downside of this (and this is not to be taken lightly) is that US soldiers also die and get maimed.

Iraq = flypaper.

However, there is no evidence that the Iraqis are any more or less secular or religious now. All that has happened is that foreign islamicists have invaded Iraq. Instead of attacking us, which they would have been doing if they weren't now in Iraq.

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
We could have just fought Islam where it already was - where the terrorists who killed 3000 of us are still.

You mean Saudi Arabia? That is where those terrorists came from. You prepared to give up your gas-guzzling SUV or are you still driving with OBL next to you.

The Larry Davis Experience · 10-01-2004, 01:55 PM

A few thoughts:
- I actually think Bush may have been hurt by the rules his side pushed for, esp the "no direct questions" rule. Instead of repeating his soundbites later in the debate he could have start posing "when did you stop beating your wife" questions about Kerry's alleged flipfloppery. I understand they were worried about Kerry pouncing on Bush with his prosecutorial cross examination techniques that worked so well against Weld, but I think it was just as likely that any such questioning would have backfired on Kerry, made him seem too shrill. Esp based on the comments I've read on here since the debate.

- I don't think Kerry did as well as some do, but he certainly found a way to discipline his answers a little better than he normally does on the stump. Maybe the campaign should bring the box with the little colored lights with them when he campaigns.

- I am developing a facial tic every time Bush says "we brought the network of AQ Khan to justice."

- While the polls have said for several months that GWB's strength is national security, I think he's going to be in a much better position for debates on domestic issues. I mean, them undecideds may not know much about bilateral negotiations, but they sure do know what the term "tax relief" means. All Bush has to do while Kerry talks about his health plan is to rub his thumb and forefinger together while he's on the split screen. I can just hear the undecideds now. "Taxes....the thumb and forefinger thing means the big Frenchman wants to raise our taxes...." Bush wanted to do something like that last night but had to check himself.

- As I said yesterday, it is honestly weird how it doesn't matter what I, or anyone who cares enough about politics to follow current events, thinks about this debate.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
I didn't miss any points. I understand the Dem position is that iraq was the wrong war to fight. I think you are wrong. I think the only solution to the problems Islam has inflicted on this earth is to bring democracy to the middle east so that the people who live better lives and will be less focused on this religion and, thus, less focused on killing us.

And ponies. Once we give everyone in the Middle East a pony, they'll all be too happy and busy with their ponies to focus on killing us. If they'd only stop shooting for long enough for us to get the ponies distributed.

The Larry Davis Experience · 10-01-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Do you not think that there are legitimate reasons why what he says should be coordinated? National security reasons perhaps?

Then it probably should have been nat security types instead of campaign types, don't you think?

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Did he say "fully" trained?

BUSH: Let me first tell you that the best way for Iraq to be safe and secure is for Iraqi citizens to be trained to do the job.

And that's what we're doing. We've got 100,000 trained now, 125,000 by the end of this year, 200,000 by the end of next year.

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/politi...96/detail.html

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
My soul is ABB, but my fiscal conservative leanings are frightened by JFK.

Easy there, pardner. You elect Kerry, and he's still got to deal with a GOP Congress, which means less wasteful spending, but the only taxes that get enacted are passed over Tom DeLay's dead body.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Don't fuck with the Polish?, er...

The President of Poland recently said about Bush et al.:

They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Do you not think that there are legitimate reasons why what he says should be coordinated? National security reasons perhaps?

Pray tell, what are the national security reasons to have a representative of the Bush-Cheney campaign helping to write Allawi's speech?

And for the love of God, think about what you're saying. If the U.S. is "coordinating" what he says with what the President says, that makes him a puppet. You're not disagreeing with Lockhart any more, you're just saying that we need a puppet there so we can bring democracy to them.

Not Me · 10-01-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
And ponies. Once we give everyone in the Middle East a pony, they'll all be too happy and busy with their ponies to focus on killing us. If they'd only stop shooting for long enough for us to get the ponies distributed.

Bribes won't work, either.

Democracy and a viable middle class will free the middle east from the chains of islam. Nothing else short of anilation via nuclear bomb will stop the evils that islam has perpetrated on the rest of us. I don't think the american people support bombing the arab world off the face of the earth.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Did he say "fully" trained?

Yes.

SlaveNoMore · 10-01-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The President of Poland recently said about Bush et al.:

They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride.

Talk about selective editing.

Find me the full quote. Nowhere in that soundbite does he say Bush, et al. He very well could be describing Saddam Hussein

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Yes.

Bush lied!

He is such a lying liar. Liar liar liar.

SlaveNoMore · 10-01-2004, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Yes.

My question was regarding last night's speech - not some quote from the past.

If I linked to every time that Kerry changed his mind, or misspoke or lied, we'd exceed our bandwith.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Talk about selective editing.

Find me the full quote. Nowhere in that soundbite does he say Bush, et al. He very well could be describing Saddam Hussein

First of all, let's be clear that you're not accusing me of selective editing, you're accusing the Australian radio network that reported this. Their story very clearly implies that the President of Poland was upset that we misled them about WMD. Second, unless you have access to the original French interview -- and surely you don't speak French, mon ami -- you don't have any reason to think that the Australian network misrepresented what the Pole Prez said. And it's hard to imagine a context in which his comments could have been aimed at someone else.

In sum, Poland's maybe not the best example.