General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by TexLex


OTOH, if he is having a hard time venting stress or frustration or whatever, maybe you can help him learn a new coping mechanism - such as yelling at his secretary, abusing associates, or heavy drinking?

Isn't it obvious he learned this behavior from his dad?

Since you can't fire the players, I say fire the manager.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
Ok so I have a baseball team I am coaching of 9-10 year olds. One kid on the team is a very good player, probably best hitter, and behaves OK at games, though he tends to be "chippy" at practice. Hard slides, hard tags, etc., often directed at kids it shouldn't be directed at.

I have talked to this kid a million times and nothing works. I think now I have to suspend him from the team for a practice and a game -- quietly. I hope this sends him and the team a serious message.

And I don't have to worry what the kid's parents are going to say because he's my kid.

I need your thoughts.

Careful. I've coached both my kids for a few years in b-ball. They catch way more shit and are held to a higher standard than the other kids. It's really not fair, and after awhile I realized I was doing it. In the end, alot of their accomplishments (or playing time) is "because your dad's the coach." which is also not fair to them.
Ultimately, it's about your kid having fun. If he really out of line make him sit out the practice, but jeez be careful.

[baltassoc]

From a relative of mine who is a sports psychologist to whom I forwarded the question:

• Hum....he might keep track of the number of incidents. When it happens, identifying it to the child. That tends to help children understand the specific behaviors that are to be reduced/eliminated. Following in the cognitive/behavioral mode, he might set a goal for the next practice (reduce incidents of the behavior from baseline to x) . Postively reinforcing reduction in the behavior - goal attainment.
  
  He might also look at the environment and see what/who might be reinforcing (sustaining and/or increasing) the behavior (eg., other boys on the team, other parents, TV athletes).
  
  Just some thoughts...
  

Some of these replies focus on your relationship with your son as parent, which is perfectly appropriate for your private discussions. In determining what the appropriate discipline is, however, and in conveying it to your son and the team, you need to be a coach, not a parent. Not only would it be unfair to your son's teammates if you treated him differently than them, it would be unfair to him. It would deprive him of the opportunity to have a coach, in addition to a parent, and it would open him up to resentment from his teammates.

Based on your original post, I think you already have this pretty firmly in mind, but I wanted to reiterate it in light of the suggestions you are getting about child psychology and docking allowance and the like, which I think are inappropriate in this context.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Careful. I've coached both my kids for a few years in b-ball. They catch way more shit and are held to a higher standard than the other kids. It's really not fair, and after awhile I realized I was doing it. In the end, alot of their accomplishments (or playing time) is "because your dad's the coach." which is also not fair to them.
Ultimately, it's about your kid having fun. If he really out of line make him sit out the practice, but jeez be careful.

Well there's some of that, but there has been some similar behavior when I am not the coach.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
Well there's some of that, but there has been some similar behavior when I am not the coach.

You should have Lemmy have a talk with him.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by TexLex
Are you going to be punishing the whole team by keeping him out (you say hes a good player).

This is a dangerous logical road to follow. The kids sign up for LL for the opportunity to play their sport. They and their parents rely on the coach to set a tone for the team; the idea that your misbehavior is judged on a sliding scale with your ability shouldn't come into play until the pro leagues. A lot of misbehavior comes from the best players on any team precisely because of this rationalization that coaches do as young players develop --- being talented means never having to say you're sorry. Hard slides and tags are probably just showing off, but every kid appreciates that every member of the team needs to take direction, or not play at all. It's an assumption built into the player/coach relationship.

Pony, it's a tough thing you have to do, because what you are about to do you're trying to do with your Coach hat on. But your kid will think you're wearing the Dad hat, even if that's not true. I would suggest that your introduction of this reprimand carry as much of the "Coach" hallmarks as possible --- impose it privately after a practice, while both of you are wearing your cleats. If you have an assistant coach, make sure he's there. Make it look official. If you do it at the dinner table, you're fucked --- he'll think he's really being unjustly punished for something off the field.

BTW, kudos to Pony for coaching the team. Some of the best learning experiences I had as a kid were playing team sports in leagues, and that simply isn't possible without coaches.* My dad coached me in a couple of years of soccer. I don't think we ever had this kind of confrontation (I wasn't talented enough, maybe), but I'm 100% confident that he could have imposed team discipline without regard to familial ties. As Hank correctly observed, that isn't always true --- I was on several teams where dad was really hard on son/star.

*I think some of the gender personality traits we attribute to "Mars vs. Venus" are actually a side effect of generations of women not having an equal opportunity to play team sports. Fortunately, this is changing.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by baltassoc
From a relative of mine who is a sports psychologist to whom I forwarded the question:

• Hum....he might keep track of the number of incidents. When it happens, identifying it to the child. That tends to help children understand the specific behaviors that are to be reduced/eliminated. Following in the cognitive/behavioral mode, he might set a goal for the next practice (reduce incidents of the behavior from baseline to x) . Postively reinforcing reduction in the behavior - goal attainment.
  
  He might also look at the environment and see what/who might be reinforcing (sustaining and/or increasing) the behavior (eg., other boys on the team, other parents, TV athletes).
  
  Just some thoughts...
  

Wow. What happened to making kids run laps when they screw up at practice?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
From a relative of mine who is a sports psychologist to whom I forwarded the question:

• Hum....he might keep track of the number of incidents. When it happens, identifying it to the child. That tends to help children understand the specific behaviors that are to be reduced/eliminated. Following in the cognitive/behavioral mode, he might set a goal for the next practice (reduce incidents of the behavior from baseline to x) . Postively reinforcing reduction in the behavior - goal attainment.
  
  He might also look at the environment and see what/who might be reinforcing (sustaining and/or increasing) the behavior (eg., other boys on the team, other parents, TV athletes).
  
  Just some thoughts...
  

Pony. i respect you. If you bring psychology into coaching your kid, the level goes down. But, this is a sort of good point. Telling him how this complicates your life might be okay.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Wow. What happened to making kids run laps when they screw up at practice?

I remember Coach Z getting totally up in my grill after a particularly egregious E9 where he was all, "Reduce incidents of the behavior from baseline to x, you fucking maggot!"

I learned a lot that day.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
the idea that your misbehavior is judged on a sliding scale with your ability shouldn't come into play until the pro leagues.

wow! And here, I've been giving you way more slack than Sidd on PB for this very reason.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I remember Coach Z getting totally up in my grill after a particularly egregious E9 where he was all, "Reduce incidents of the behavior from baseline to x, you fucking maggot!"

I learned a lot that day.

and by the way, the only relevent advice I ever got about coaching was to try and not be the coach that makes a kid quit that sport.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Wow. What happened to making kids run laps when they screw up at practice?

We tried that. And herein lies the problem: when Coach Z says run laps he runs (and runs and runs). When I say run laps the answer is "No."

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
We tried that. And herein lies the problem: when Coach Z says run laps he runs (and runs and runs). When I say run laps the answer is "No."

Definitely bench him. If he's abusing the father/son relationship, then you need to set the boundaries clearly. I don't know if it's even a good idea to bench him privately. I might be inclined to wait for the next bad act and impose the discipline in front of the team, without getting all apeshit about it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Definitely bench him. If he's abusing the father/son relationship, then you need to set the boundaries clearly. I don't know if it's even a good idea to bench him privately. I might be inclined to wait for the next bad act and impose the discipline in front of the team, without getting all apeshit about it.

Atticus' mom would make him stay in a closet for weeks. Not because of sports of course. I know one time was due to bed wetting.