Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Cheers!

55. Seer Gilligan


Gilligan discovers an island bush that produces seeds which, when eaten, give a person the ability to read the minds of others. This leads to disaster when everyone insults each other through their honesty and thoughts.


b: 27-Jan-1966 w: Elroy Schwartz d: Leslie Goodwins

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
If Club doesn't mind, I think his post should be titled: "God I hate the fucking teachers unions!"

Fair enough.

edited to add after reading all of posts that followed that:

I don't hate all teachers. My mother is one and I don't hate her. But I find it ridiculous that the unions are against vouchers and tout the public schools, while their members are sending their kids to private schools.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/22/ny...agewanted=2&hp

Section 8 vouchers in the NYC area will be for lower values this year, because the value is now calculated based on a number that includes surrounding suburbs.

Now, if somebody points out that some of the suburbs don't have any section 8, maybe lights will start going off. OTOH, maybe the light that goes off will be to only include the rents of those suburbs that do have section 8. Something tells me, including only the suburbs that have section would probably bring the average down even further for a place like NYC (as compared to including all suburbs).

Boy, this could break either way at any time.

Hello

Housing is much cheaper in Cleveland and Alabama and Iowa and Vermont than it is in NYC. You don't have a fucking god given right to live in Manhattan. If you cannot afford to live there, then move. Plenty of places in this country have affordable housing.

eta: Remember when there were good jobs in the north and not so good jobs in the south? People fucking moved so that they could have a better quality of life. Same is true for housing. If you can't afford to live in NYC, then fucking move. If you are a minimum wage earner, there are jobs for you in other parts of the country that pay the same but have much lower housing costs. You should move there.

Then if unskilled labor was scarce in high cost of living areas, the simple laws of supply and demand would dictate that the employers would have to pay more for unskilled labor in those high housing cost areas. The solution is not to introduce a market failure by having the government subsidize the employers. That is what section 8 housing is - a subsidy for employers.

People need to move where they can afford to live.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
a teacher making $50,000 a year

Teachers don't work an entire year like the rest of us do. They get 3 months off in the summer and several weeks off between semesters and a week off for spring break and usually every jewish and christian holiday off, too, as well as every fucking official government holiday.

Saying 50k a year is deceptive given the number of days in a year that teacher actually work.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Not Me
Housing is much cheaper in Cleveland and Alabama and Iowa and Vermont than it is in NYC. You don't have a fucking god given right to live in Manhattan. If you cannot afford to live there, then move. Plenty of places in this country have affordable housing.

Yes it is. No they don't. Indeed. Indeed. All non-responsive though. I'm in favor of the lowering, particularly if it gets the poor to start spreading out more. Gotta wonder though how many section 8ers live in Manhattan and need to spread out.

If the poor spread out more (and landlords are forced to accept them, hopefully on a very limited basis), then it forces the issue on this country that pays for the vouchers. If they are Right, then they'll tell their Reps to vote it to ZERO in the case of able-bodied working-age adults. But if they were as Right as me, it wouldn't take the spreading out (NIMBY reaction) to get them to this point. But if they were as Right as me, we wouldn't have this mess because:

If they want section 8, they'd have it in a suburb near them; or
They wouldn't want section 8.

In either case, Right people wouldn't want the current system that perpetuates poverty (and thus, itself). You are either Right or you are Not. But if you are not Right, then you are Not_Me.

Hello

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Yes it is. No they don't.

I was editing my post while you were responding. All section 8 does is help to keep wages low for unskilled workers in high cost of living areas because it effectively acts as a subsidy to an employer. Without section 8, the people would have to move somewhere else where they could afford housing. This would make unskilled labor scarce in high cost of living areas, requiring employers to compete via increased wages for unskilled workers.

Of course I am not including the truly disabled and elderly population in this analysis. We should take care of the disabled. The old people, though, they can just move to Florida. Mobile homes are cheap there.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
If the poor spread out more (and landlords are forced to accept them, hopefully on a very limited basis), then it forces the issue on this country that pays for the vouchers.

Right. Because we all know that the problem with the poor and housing is that they tend to clump in the better neighborhoods, and refuse to move to areas where they could get more for their Section 8 dollars.

Look, this is a cut in housing subsidies, plain and simple.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
55. Seer Gilligan


Gilligan discovers an island bush that produces seeds which, when eaten, give a person the ability to read the minds of others. This leads to disaster when everyone insults each other through their honesty and thoughts.


b: 27-Jan-1966 w: Elroy Schwartz d: Leslie Goodwins

Damn reruns. I just saw that one.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Not Me

That is what section 8 housing is - a subsidy for employers.

People need to move where they can afford to live.

No doubt. And, ironically, it seems concentrated in areas where there are Democrats. Democrats like Daley. Cities where things have been run into the ground so much that on a single day you can read about the transit chief threatening to cut rush-hour service and also read about wild animals moving back into the heart of downtown (iconjuring mages of tumbleweeds blowing past skyscrapers).

To expand on your statement, people need to move where they can find jobs at all. I have a former 6-figure friend who is moving to the DC area from the afore-mentioned wasteland to regain his 6 figure status, and I know many more who have done so already (conjuring images of the exodus from Northern California in '00/'01).

I thought a lot about what Taxwonk wrote a few weeks ago, regarding Chicago having a housing-rights law that requires landlords to accept section 8. The problem with such a law is that people can just move to the suburbs (just like they do to avoid public housing). Enact it in the county, and people will just move to another county. Enact it in the state, and people will just move to another state. The problem is national. Ironically, the funding is national too. Unfortunately, at the same time our fearless leaders imposed this burden on our pocketbooks, they didn't actually do anything to ensure the real burden (of living with Section 8ers next door) was imposed fairly. Thus, the Democrats in places like Chicago give the people a big Hug while the city empties out. Then the Democrats scream poor-mouth. Pretty much every year. When their tax base is gone.

No matter. We are all still paying for their big Hug. Personally, for the money we spend on failed not_Right dreams, we all probably deserve a blowjob (at least!).

But hey, your corrected post is pretty much right. If you are Right, you are Me.

Hello

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Right. Because we all know that the problem with the poor and housing is that they tend to clump in the better neighborhoods, and refuse to move to areas where they could get more for their Section 8 dollars.

Look, this is a cut in housing subsidies, plain and simple.

Uhm, see my sentence on Manhattan.

He(having it both ways tonight, and I'm still Right!)llo

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The problem with such a law is that people can just move to the suburbs (just like they do to avoid public housing). Enact it in the county, and people will just move to another county. Enact it in the state, and people will just move to another state. ...Thus, the Democrats in places like Chicago give the people a big Hug while the city empties out. Then the Democrats scream poor-mouth. Pretty much every year. When their tax base is gone.

20. St. Gilligan and The Dragon - Angry because the men haven't kept their promise to build them private houses, the women decide to move to the other side of the island in protest. Gilligan and the Skipper dress as a monster, in an attempt to frighten the girls and cause them to come running back.

February 13, 1965; w: Arnold Peyser & Lois Peyser; d: Montgomery

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
Sorry, just reading quickly and making a fast reply in between planes:

When I said "to be a patriot, you have to agree with me", I was joking - indicating that patrotism has a much broader meaning than what has been tossed around the politisphere lately. You'd have to have read it that way to have it make sense in the context of the post in which it resided. As I said, Kerry was being a patriot when he was in his anti-war mode in the seventies, in my mind. A patriot does what he or she thinks best serves their country. We can all disagree on what that it, but that only defines how YOU serve YOUR OWN patriotism.

I need to use more smileys.

We also need to turn down the level of what passes for debate around here these days. We're all taking this shit way too seriously.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by viet_mom
20. St. Gilligan and The Dragon - Angry because the men haven't kept their promise to build them private houses, the women decide to move to the other side of the island in protest. Gilligan and the Skipper dress as a monster, in an attempt to frighten the girls and cause them to come running back.

February 13, 1965; w: Arnold Peyser & Lois Peyser; d: Montgomery

Let me guess, a suburban Democrat who couldn't point to the nearest public housing if she was getting mugged in its lobby. You still probably deserve a blowjob too.

What do I win?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by taxwonk
We're all taking this shit way too seriously.

Every time I see $14000 monthly get turned into $9600, I get pissed thinking about how many dozens of children I could feed for Sally Struthers if I just had the choice with that missing money. Or I could probably buy breakfast for a celebrity like Sally Struthers. I'm trapped into this poverty. Trapped I tell you. And it pisses me off.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
If you knew little Ty's teacher lived down the road but sent her kids to St. Vitus, you wouldn't wonder WTF?

Frankly, no. I know plenty of public school teachers who've sent their kids to private school. I'm related to several of them. The decision to send the kid to private school was more complex than "it's a better school."* Much of it is straight-up religion** or resonates with the discussion on LWK about not being able to kick the bad apples out. (Confidential to Club: the teachers' unions tend not to march in the streets against the power to expel. And nearly all of the individual public school teachers I know tend to agree with their unions about the systemic effects of vouchers. Some of them feel strongly against tuition credits for private school WHILE THEY'RE PAYING THOUSANDS IN PRIVATE SCHOOL TUITION. Stop pretending the union is making this up.)

*Lawyers are all the fucking same. We are rank Timmies. Want me to point you to the posts on Infirm asking about "the best" law school or "the best" firm in a particular city? I have news for you --- normal people don't think so superficially.

**A not-inconsiderable portion of Club's stats are probably due to the fact that Catholic families who think civil service jobs are da bomb tend to produce a lot of teachers. Who send their kids to parochial school. It's not exactly a grand conspiracy. Catholics are 30% of the country, and some of them can afford parochial school. Big whoop.