Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch


Odious. Unspeakable. Vile. You can't bring that to a table without vomiting.

Agree. California Sauvignons blancs pale in comparison to either a nice kiwi S.B. or a Sancerre.

BTW, do they charge fees every day, or just the Fri-Sat-Sun peak times?

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
In terms of tasting, a lot of money has been put into "the Tasting Room experience" in Napa. These places now charge money (flat fee or by the glass) because they are tourist destinations in their own right. Some of the big-money beverage conglomerates have built recockulous French chateaux on the hills of Napa and Sonoma to make it look like they've always been there. In fact, it's all been in the past 15 years. Domaine Carneros is kind of the classic example of this --- it's like they rebuilt Vaux le Vicomte in the middle of farmland.

Very few Napa-side wineries are still doing tastings The Way It Used to Be. For old-school surrounded-by-oak-barrels style tasting, I recommend Cakebread and Grgich Hills. These are nor tours, per se, but you'll get an idea of what winery visits used to be like.

ZD makes an excellent Chardonnay. Silver Oak is good for Cabernets, and has a cool Spanish mission style tasting room. As for tours, I've heard good things about Beringer's and Mondavi's tours,* but actually the process of making wine is pretty boring in comparison to the process for making champagne. I recommend Domaine Chandon for a champagne tour. (Their tasting room is just meh.)

FWIW, they say Sonoma is a much less snooty experience --- you might actually get to talk to the vintner in the tasting room, rather than a glorified waiter. There are also places in Sonoma that still do not charge for tasting. Good luck finding anyplace in Napa that doesn't. (V. Sattui doesn't count since they found mice in the panini, and besides their wines are for shit and always have been.)

*ETA: I have also heard good things about Niebaum-Coppola but haven't personally been there. Unlike many of the other chateau tasting rooms, the Niebaum estate is legitimately old skool.

ETFA: As a native and resident I am unqualified to recommend B&Bs.

ETFFA: I agree with NFH --- Mustards sux. But be warned: you have no prayer of getting into the French Laundry.

Y'all are giving me a major wine jones.

Unlike Atticus, I have done the Mondavi tour, and I've been to Coppola's place. Both worthwhile, but big and very crowded. Niebaum-Coppola is, I think, the old Inglenook estate. You can see a bunch of movie memorabilia there, too. St. Supery has a good tour and decent wine; modern facility plus an old original house.

If you get over to the Silverado Trail side of the valley, things quiet down. Along with relatively big guns like Pine Ridge and Chimney Rock, you can still find some funky little wineries. Quality is more hit-or-miss, but you may be talking to the winemaker, rather than some tasting room clerk.

If you make it to Carneros, I'm a big fan of Schug, especially for the price point. Nice folks, too. In that area, the tour at Carneros Alambic distillery is pretty cool. Only downside: no tasting. Just smelling. Buy some, though. Good stuff.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Y'all are giving me a major wine jones.

Unlike Atticus, I have done the Mondavi tour, and I've been to Coppola's place. Both worthwhile, but big and very crowded. Niebaum-Coppola is, I think, the old Inglenook estate. You can see a bunch of movie memorabilia there, too. St. Supery has a good tour and decent wine; modern facility plus an old original house.

If you get over to the Silverado Trail side of the valley, things quiet down. Along with relatively big guns like Pine Ridge and Chimney Rock, you can still find some funky little wineries. Quality is more hit-or-miss, but you may be talking to the winemaker, rather than some tasting room clerk.

If you make it to Carneros, I'm a big fan of Schug, especially for the price point. Nice folks, too. In that area, the tour at Carneros Alambic distillery is pretty cool. Only downside: no tasting. Just smelling. Buy some, though. Good stuff.

Quick question. When its crowded, has the movie made "drinking from the spit-can" more socially acceptable?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
(V. Sattui doesn't count since they found mice in the panini, and besides their wines are for shit and always have been.)

I like their madeira.

*ETA: I have also heard good things about Niebaum-Coppola but haven't personally been there. Unlike many of the other chateau tasting rooms, the Niebaum estate is legitimately old skool.

It was old skool, but it is a long, long way from (e.g.) Grgich Hills. They don't let you forget that Francis Coppola is the Coppola for very long.

ETFA: As a native and resident I am unqualified to recommend B&Bs.

True, dat. But if you drink enough, they all look the same.

ETFFA: I agree with NFH --- Mustards sux. But be warned: you have no prayer of getting into the French Laundry.

There are some grocery stores in Napa the likes of which you don't find in other places, and you can eat a very good -- albeit -- picnic lunch if you put your mind to it.

Ms. Slothrop recommends the mud baths in Calistoga, at Indian Springs. They have a beautiful mineral water pool.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I like their madeira.

Maybe so, but that isn't a compliment to their wines. Name one potable beverage that isn't improved by the addition of brandy.

There are some grocery stores in Napa the likes of which you don't find in other places, and you can eat a very good -- albeit -- picnic lunch if you put your mind to it.

Tell that to the dude with the rat in his hoagie.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Maybe so, but that isn't a compliment to their wines. Name one potable beverage that isn't improved by the addition of brandy.

I don't recall complementing their wines. If you're going to have a (rat-free) hoagie there, I would recommend the madeira to go with it.

Tell that to the dude with the rat in his hoagie.

Yeah, I don't think I'll be racing back there.

Wineries I've enjoyed:

Napa

Franciscan
Grgich
Monticello
Folie a Deux
Rombauer

Sonoma

Chateau Souverain
Matanzas Creek
Gundlach Bundschu

Haven't been to some of these for years, though . . . .

[Aloha Mr. Learned Hand]

Thanks for all the advice... Niebaum-Coppola is on my list for the movie connection, and I have sampled one of their Cabernets which was nice. Grgich is another favorite of mine so we'll probably end up there. Mrs. Hand is a fan of Sterling so we might go there as well. One of the partners here is a big fan of Quintessa and is bugging me to send him some back -- jeez dude, call Sam's and have them deliver it to ya.

Can't go to Chalk Hill -- nice wines, but have a case against the owner. Might buy a case of their stuff if we beat him to celebrate.

Not getting into SF proper or I'd stop by and say hello.

[Aloha Mr. Learned Hand]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Tell that to the dude with the rat in his hoagie.

Not sure I want to go to the vineyard that markets itself as the label that goes well with hoagies, rat or no rat. Twist-off cap on that stuff?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
Thanks for all the advice... Niebaum-Coppola is on my list for the movie connection, and I have sampled one of their Cabernets which was nice. Grgich is another favorite of mine so we'll probably end up there. Mrs. Hand is a fan of Sterling so we might go there as well. One of the partners here is a big fan of Quintessa and is bugging me to send him some back -- jeez dude, call Sam's and have them deliver it to ya.

You'll find that you don't save any money buying wine up there unless you know someone.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You'll find that you don't save any money buying wine up there unless you know someone.

True dat. From a financial point, makes no sense to buy at the winery unless it's something you can't get from your local wine shop.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Agree. California Sauvignons blancs pale in comparison to either a nice kiwi S.B. or a Sancerre.

BTW, do they charge fees every day, or just the Fri-Sat-Sun peak times?

They charge every day, unless you opt for the "membership" which we have done in the past to get a discount on the wine.

FYI Aloha, Sterling is way the hell north, just like Ferrari Carrano (only in Napa, not Sonoma), but it's definitely worth the drive. You take a tram to a former monastery and the view on a good day is great. Also, you will have to drive by Beringer, which is quite an attractive old mansion. You will also have to drive by the good outlet mall. The crap outlet mall is right as you come into Napa. The good outlet mall has Donna Karan, Coach and something else I can't remember.

Atticus, the drive to Ferrari Carano is worth it if you stop in Healdsburg and have lunch first. Maybe hit Kendall Jackson for the hell of it. Then go to Ferrari Carano, then you can hit Silver Oak, Murphy Goode and Chateau Souverain on the way back.

Aloha, I agree with the consensus that V. Sattui wine is crap, but they have an outrageous deli and is always wall-to-wall packed with people. They also have a pleasant picnic area out front to eat your deli selection and pound some water before the big drink fest that is wine tasting.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
True dat. From a financial point, makes no sense to buy at the winery unless it's something you can't get from your local wine shop.

Recently though, if you buy a case, or sign up for a membership, you can get a pretty substantial discount. Usually 15-25% because sales are a little down still and the competition is hot. At that price, it usually beats the prices at Beverages and Mo.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Recently though, if you buy a case, or sign up for a membership, you can get a pretty substantial discount. Usually 15-25% because sales are a little down still and the competition is hot. At that price, it usually beats the prices at Beverages and Mo.

If you live in Pennsylvania, apparently you can get some fantastic deals on California wine. Makes me envious.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If you live in Pennsylvania, apparently you can get some fantastic deals on California wine. Makes me envious.

I saw that in the Chron today. That totally sucks. I think if it's closer, it should be cheaper. Stupid Jack-in-the-box eating government worker.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
Not sure I want to go to the vineyard that markets itself as the label that goes well with hoagies, rat or no rat. Twist-off cap on that stuff?

Remember, I'm the guy urging people to wash their cars with Two Buck Chuck shiraz, taking a little nip or two in between rinses.

I would recommend the Charles Shaw winery tour, but saying "Go to Fresno" is the California equivalent of a swear.