Fashion Board 3-5-04 to 4-6-04

Originally posted by bilmore
I think his point is, or was, or should be, that unless the hugely overweight person falls on you, it's not your problem, whereas the drunk usually is.

That simply could not be his point bc I have to assume the AG reading comp is a little better than that and my first point on this convo was that the overweight are driving up my taxes, are slowing my elevator rides, are standing still on the left side of an escalator so that I am forced to stand and I had one more but I cant remember it at the moment bc I am swamped. I also said if they can remove their health issues such as heart attacks and back and knee surgeries from my tax burden, then I dont care if they are fat or not (except for the escalator/elevator thing). They might not be killing me, but they are costing me time, money and on occasion, the ablitiy to get a little exercise myself by walking up the escalator. And dont get me started on the litter I have to look at from the consumers of fast food who think that not only their bodies, but the world, is their garbage can. THoughtless, lazy people.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Halle Berry is perfecting her naughty business woman look (pic)

Yowza. Thurgreed, she is too good for you.

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
And apparently Ashley Judd broke her leg or something (pic of the lovely Ashley in a cast)

Probably dropped by some idiot Wildcat fan at Rupp the other day when he was too busy mugging for the camera to concentrate on his precious cargo. Moron.

[robustpuppy]

Not that you don't all check the news sites, but there was a terrorist attack in Madrid today (3/11). A group linked to Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/11/in...1CND-TRAI.html

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Incomplete models.

Either overeating is rational or it's not.

It's rational if people are doing it for enjoyment. If so, it's the same as smoking, drinking, drugs, rock-climbing, kayaking, whatever: it's activity with potential harm to the person engaging in it, and possibly external costs for health care when things go wrong (heart disease, lung cancer, liver cirrhosis, cracked skulls). If you rail against one, you're unprincipled not to rail against another. Otherwise, you should accept that people will do harmful things to their bodies. Sebby, I assume, won't be looking for a free liver when his gives up and runs off to Utah.

Or it's not rational, because it's a physical addiction of some sort, glandular or whatever. Sebby sez, well, I'm not attacking them, because it's a disease. Well, fine, let's not attack the irrational overeaters, because it's a disease. And we'll leave the alcoholics (non-driving) and crackheads alone as well. So go back and read the first paragraph and distinguish overeating from the other activities.

The thread wasn't about hating that fat people bitch and moan for acceptance and toleration. It was about how disgusting fat people are.

Leave it up to a lawyer to fix a fatal flaw by enabling the defining to word to have infinite definitions.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
hoooo boy 6 degrees! I bet you don't see robins for 2 more weeks! Well maybe you can recommend a CD, but not something you first heard in your spin class okay?

I am really into the new Outernationalists' CD Ethnomixicology. Kind of a mix of various world beat and electronica. Concidentally on the label Six Degrees Records. But that is not really up your alley. And, candidly, I can imagine some of the tunes being played in spin class. I also went to see Soul Position, which is the DJ RJD2 and the rapper Blue Print from the underground hip hop label Def Jux. I bought the CD at the show and think it is damn good, but again, not so sure it is up your alley. Have I ever recommended that you check out the Cows? A now-defunct Minneapolis noise-psycho-punk group. One of the best ever. I suggest starting with Sexy Pee Story. Great cover of the Jesus Christ Superstar song 39 Lashes, which is timely with the Lenten season upon us.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Not that you don't all check the news sites, but there was a terrorist attack in Madrid today (3/11). A group linked to Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/11/in...1CND-TRAI.html

Remind me to stay home three months from now.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
And not all fatties get in your way or drive up your health insurance costs. To the contrary, when they die of heart attacks at 55, they save health ins. and social security plenty of money.

But I'll suggest for atticus the following retort:

Let he who is without [self-destructive] sin cast the first stone.

Coots, according to bilmore, it isnt the "self destrictive" sin thats the problem. Its the "destroy thy neigbhbor sin". Your first retort is marginally stronger but not all of them go quickyl and yong. Many have multiple heart attacks, surgeries, hospital visits, etc. The smokers pay for themselves (now, to some extent) with taxes, so why shouldnt the overeaters and consumers of processed "food"? The only difference I see is that disease related to overeating of crap is on the rise faster than heart disease relating to smoking. .

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
You get the shivers about drunk driving because you might los eyour license? Do I need to send you that powerpoint about the woman who got all burned because of an accident with a drunk driver?

Even better, maybe we can talk about my cousin, who was decapitated when a drunk driver decided that she didn't really have to slow down because of all that ice...

Yeah, but what about the person who had to sit next to the fat guy on the plane?

[dtb]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Ever see how animals in the wild shun unhealthy animals? People who look like hell through no fault but their own raise a primordial disdain in others. Its an instinctual thing that probably dates back to when we travelled in tribes. The guy who ate too much became a drag on the group, and his appearance was the unmistakable proof of his crime.

Well, at least you didn't preface this with some variation on the "I am sure that everyone on this board will mostly agree that..."

But your first sentence makes no sense with the second. Animals shun unhealthy ones because they don't want to catch whatever disease the unhealthy one has. If you are proposing to draw an analogy to the wild-animal kingdom, then fault has no relevance whatsoever.

"The guy who ate too much became a drag on the group"?!?!? Come on -- if you're talking about cavemen times (that's the scientific term), "the guy who ate too much" ipso facto (I'm guessing on that usage -- I really have no idea what it means) ruled the roost, as he elbowed everyone out of the way as he made a beeline for the buffet table.

The analogy you're making is straight-up wacky. See, when you actually write something down, instead of just ad-libbing verbally, people can look at your words over and over again, and see how silly they are. (Anecdotally, this is how traders can get away with "putting lipstick on that pig" in an ORAL conversation, but are nailed to the wall the moment they write their bullshit down.)

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Halle Berry is perfecting her naughty business woman look:

I think thats Jada Pinkett Smith, no?

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Not that you don't all check the news sites, but there was a terrorist attack in Madrid today (3/11). A group linked to Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/11/in...1CND-TRAI.html

It is sickening. So the group claiming responsibility was not the Basque separatists that were initially suspected...

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
You get the shivers about drunk driving because you might los eyour license? Do I need to send you that powerpoint about the woman who got all burned because of an accident with a drunk driver?

Even better, maybe we can talk about my cousin, who was decapitated when a drunk driver decided that she didn't really have to slow down because of all that ice...

Are you really asking me this?

I talk incessantly on the cell phone in the car and consequently drive pretty goddamn recklessly. Why is that behavior, which is more culpable than a drunk (who is mentally comprimised) driving, not equally villified? No one calls for the heads of chronic speeders or cell phone abusers like me. Yet if I drive drunk, I'm the boogeyman. Why is that? It seems that I, as the conscious undiminished negligent actor, should be subject to MORE scorn than the drunk.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I said I deride people without self control. I don't merely say "You're fat, you suck." Every one of my examples has been of a person who I observed overindulging and lacking any sembalnce of self control. I would never judge a person merely on appearance. Its when I see them on their fourth donut that the visceral distates enters the picture.

I brake for cheesecake.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you really asking me this?

I talk incessantly on the cell phone in the car and consequently drive pretty goddamn recklessly. Why is that behavior, which is more culpable than a drunk (who is mentally comprimised) driving, not equally villified? No one calls for the heads of chronic speeders or cell phone abusers like me. Yet if I drive drunk, I'm the boogeyman. Why is that? It seems that I, as the conscious undiminished negligent actor, should be subject to MORE scorn than the drunk.

And don't even get me started on the overeaters who get behind the wheel... All in a hurry to get home and unbutton the pants...

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by bilmore
If we were making fun of people who pick their noses on the subway, we could do it with very little guilt about "bashing". That would be an act entirely within their own choice, a repulsive habit they could avoid simply by deciding not to do it.

If we were making fun of dwarves, we would instantly be labeled cruel and horrible people, as we'd be objectifying and belittling people on the basis of something they can't change.

Fat people seem to fall somewhere in between this. They're sort of at the stage alcoholics used to be at, where we couldn't quite allow that the status might be due to something beyond "they just choose to get blotto'ed - irresponsible fucks!". So, the tension lies in the fact that some comments come from the held truth that fat people should just toughen up and stop pigging out, and others are restrained by the acknowledgment that it's probably something more than that.

For the people who call it a chosen state, it's probably the most obvious and forceful sign of a weak character - especially in a society where looks and outward appearance seem to count for everything. Thus, the scorn. For people who think that weight has a strong genetic/social component, it's still troubling, because, without complete proof of that component, there is still a feeling that the person has broken the biggest rule of our time and society - "look good". If looking good can be so important to our society, then someone who "maybe willingly" breaks that value is seen as being in an antisocial stance. It's probably like someone who makes fun of reality TV. You can't be in direct opposition to the accepted social truths and values.

How did I know it would relate back to you somehow?

TM