Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I don't think Kobayashi was Soze --- or, more accurately, that the guy who played Kobayashi in the narrative was Soze in "real" life. I agree that it's Verbal. However, there is no such person as Kobayashi. It's a word Verbal got off the label on the bottom of a coffee cup in the interview room. Since he's telling the story and adding elaboration as Kujan pushes him for more (notice he doesn't start talking about Soze until Kujan asks him, based on the tip from the dying burn victim at the pier, and involuntarily explodes with "Shit!" when Kujan suddenly asks "Who is Kayser Soze?"). He completely made up the Kobayashi character in the narrative in order to get out of Kujan's office. The movie depicts him as being played by the same guy who picks up Verbal in the car on the street as he limps away from the interview room. But it's natural that the visual depiction would use images of people Verbal actually knew. The movie is just the tapestry of Verbal's story, which he's making up as he goes along, getting himself out of jams that his narrative put him in.

So, no, Kobayashi is not Soze, but in the visual story he's "played" by the guy who's Soze's real assistant in "real" life.

I disagree. I think there is enough evidence (all the killing on the boat, the killing in the building where they meet kobayashi, all the other killings, the fact that the usual suspects were in fact jailed together, etc.) that his story really just substitutes names of actual people.

TM

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
When I took a few college film studies classes, I was surprised to learn that "Desparately Seeking Susan" ... identiy and gender.
str8

I loved that movie (12 years ago). The identity stuff really resonated with me.

Keeping the Faith was also pretty cool in that way.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
According to the screenwriters, even they really didn't/don't know which parts Verbal made up and which parts were actual events. No one really knows. All we really know is that (stop if you haven't seen the movie) all of them were put in jail, released and then the boat exploded. ALL of it in b/w could have been made up, or all of it actually could have happened but with different names. Or something in between. The screenwriters admitted this on an HBO special that was shown after the movie a couple of years back. I guess they're probably full of it and are just trying to add to the mystery, but it's more fun not knowing.

You beat me to the reply, so I will say -- yeah, what he said!

[don't read below if you don't want to know...]

Actually the last time a watched it (about 5 or 6 months ago) I was thinking that much of it must have been made up by Verbal because "the devil himself" would not have put himself in the places that Verbal claimed to be. It is kind of interesting to look at the various scenes ( I focused mainly on the boat scene) from that perspective. I agree with the person who said that it was a story made up on the spot (with certain pieces based on first hand knowledge of actual events and other parts based on conjecture by Soze), not just a changing of names based on items in the office.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Fugee
Accents in Lethal Weapon 2? I don't remember accents; I guess it must have been the bad guys but that movie falls into my too much fun to care category.

Yeah, I'm thinking it was not the West LA/Valley accent differences, but rather the south african accents that sounded more australian. I'll happily forgive patsy kensit any of her accent transgressions, though.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

The other brilliant aspect of The Usual Suspects was that they didn't resolve it for you, didn't provide all the answers and thereby ruin the mystery. As a contrary example, see House of Games (that one is a recommendation.... BUT STOP READING if you haven't seen it yet). You get to just after the scene where she's given Joe Mantegna $80k or so, she's back at her office... and you have the suspicion, maybe the strong suspicion, that this was all a scam, but you don't really know. And then, through a series of bullshit, not credible coincidences, you find out that those suspicions are correct, ruining the really satisfying, suspensful feeling that you'd had for a few minutes.

House of Games


Spoiler



It's been a while since I've seen this one, but it's a great flick. I have always felt the real merit in HoG was its exploration of the psychology of the con rather than the con itself. I have wondered, though, when they decided to pull the long con on her. The whole time, or in the aftermath of the leaking gun?

[evenodds]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
You beat me to the reply, so I will say -- yeah, what he said!

I totally agree with y'all. It's a sign of great moviemaking that both explanations are reasonably plausible and we are still arguiing about it all these years later.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I disagree. I think there is enough evidence (all the killing on the boat, the killing in the building where they meet kobayashi, all the other killings, the fact that the usual suspects were in fact jailed together, etc.) that his story really just substitutes names of actual people.

TM

Well, you can't really disagree about what was real and what was not when the folks who wrote it don't know.

[Don't read if you haven't seen the movie]

There is no evidence of the whole Redfoot deal, nor (I don't think) any evidence of the death's in Kobayashi's building. In my opinion, the entire California scene was made up. I think there is evidence of the New York "taxi" service, but no evidence that it was pulled off by Verbal and crew. For all we know, after they were released, Soze had them all killed and then blew up the boat himself. Verbal made up the entire story to perpetuate Soze's legend. He used other characters to make it sound like he was a ruthless, omniscient killer.

Also, he made up the story JUST to fuck with Kujon.

Edited to add that I put way too much thought into this movie when I was very stoned in college...

[tax_hottie]

[i]Speaking of films, I want to catch up on good films I've missed in the last couple years. What "must see" films should I rent for the forecasted rainy 4th?

Wet Hot American Summer! No, it's not a porno. Early '80's summer camp spoof. Stupid humor at its best. If you're into that sort of thing. I'm generally not (e.g., I hate The Simpsons and Dumb and Dumber), but for some reason I loved this flick. Try to rent the DVD so you can listen to the soundtrack with extra farts.

http://www.wethotamericansummer.com/

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by evenodds
I totally agree with y'all. It's a sign of great moviemaking that both explanations are reasonably plausible and we are still arguiing about it all these years later.

And that the fact that y'all are arguing about it all these years later is a sign of something else, which I won't say until y'all leave the room.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by tax_hottie
Stupid humor at its best. If you're into that sort of thing. I'm generally not (e.g., I hate The Simpsons and Dumb and Dumber), but for some reason I loved this flick.

I'm not sure how The Simpsons and Dumb and Dumberer get grouped together.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
You beat me to the reply, so I will say -- yeah, what he said!

[don't read below if you don't want to know...]

Actually the last time a watched it (about 5 or 6 months ago) I was thinking that much of it must have been made up by Verbal because "the devil himself" would not have put himself in the places that Verbal claimed to be. It is kind of interesting to look at the various scenes ( I focused mainly on the boat scene) from that perspective. I agree with the person who said that it was a story made up on the spot (with certain pieces based on first hand knowledge of actual events and other parts based on conjecture by Soze), not just a changing of names based on items in the office.

Usual suspects, blah, blah, haven't seen it, go rent it...
It seems to me that he'd want to stay as close to real events as possible, because he wasn't sure what the cops knew and what they didn't. Any of the following basic facts could be verified: hijacking of gun parts, subsequent shake down line up, relationship between Dean Keaton and Edie, hit on the New York's Finest Taxi Service and theft of diamonds, diamonds (and the group) showing up in LA, hit in the parking garage, bodies of Kobayashi body guards, Fenster's body, bodies from the boat, lack of drugs, presence of the identifiying guy that they were buying, and lack of (I imagine) money. Verbal/Soze had to weave a story that accommodated those facts, just in case the police found out about them, like they found out about Soze's involvment. Certainly he didn't bring up Soze until Kujan did, but I think that the basic structure of Verbal's story plays out with what really happened, because if it didn't, and the police knew something that he didn't explain in his story, then he could have been nailed.

I love the movie because it's different every time I watch it. I think, though, that Kevin Spacey's performance in L.A. Confidential was more complex and more interesting than The Usual Suspects, and it pisses me off that he (along with the rest of the male cast) in that movie weren't even nominated for Academy Awards.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by evenodds
Why not watch it in French with the subtitles?

Lazy?

No question. But I didn't put much thought into whether it would be better with subtitles and would rather hit play than go through the dvd menu crap (that would be another way to say I'm lazy).

TM

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Usual suspects, blah, blah, haven't seen it, go rent it...
It seems to me that he'd want to stay as close to real events as possible, because he wasn't sure what the cops knew and what they didn't. Any of the following basic facts could be verified: hijacking of gun parts, subsequent shake down line up, relationship between Dean Keaton and Edie, hit on the New York's Finest Taxi Service and theft of diamonds, diamonds (and the group) showing up in LA, hit in the parking garage, bodies of Kobayashi body guards, Fenster's body, bodies from the boat, lack of drugs, presence of the identifiying guy that they were buying, and lack of (I imagine) money. Verbal/Soze had to weave a story that accommodated those facts, just in case the police found out about them, like they found out about Soze's involvment. Certainly he didn't bring up Soze until Kujan did, but I think that the basic structure of Verbal's story plays out with what really happened, because if it didn't, and the police knew something that he didn't explain in his story, then he could have been nailed.

Academy Awards.

He doesn't care whether they can verify it or not; he'll be gone. They never had the chance to unverify anything. Not enough time. Verbal/Soze knows this. He knows there is no way a police department in NYC can verify the specific goings-on in California in that short of time, for example. He knows they only can question him for a few hours. By the time they figure out he made up the story, he's gone. It would take them DAYS to prove him wrong. He knows they know NOTHING. He has contacts w/in the PD.

[NotFromHere]

Another bad movie - The Rock. However,

SAN FRANCISCO, July 1 — Now you can own a piece of The Rock, aka Alcatraz Island. The National Park Service has started selling boxed chunks of concrete from the federal prison that once housed Al Capone, George “Machine Gun” Kelly and Robert “Birdman” Stroud. THE SOUVENIRS, which cost $4.95, are available because the park service is renovating the decaying cell house and a guards quarters on the isolated island in San Francisco Bay.
The $7.7 million effort to stabilize the structure is the largest capital project on the island since the penitentiary was closed in 1963. Richard Weideman, a spokesman for the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, said park staff came up with the idea for the mementos as an alternative to ferrying tons of rubble off Alcatraz.

In other words, we're lazy and we're cheap. So buy rocks from us so we don't have to work so hard.
lazy asses selling crap instead of working

On the other hand - what a great Christmas idea. Hey mom and dad, I bought you a piece of rock that Al Capone peed on!

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Half the time the royal spouses were imports from Spain or Germany, and to the extent they came from anywhere in those islands, the Tudors and Stuarts had more Scottish than Twit blood.

Don't you mean Scotch?