Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[Jack Manfred]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
So I watched "The Brak Show" last night. Any fans out there? Anyone seen it? Heard of it?

I've seen "The Brak Show." I prefer the other late night cartoons on Adult Swim...

Aqua Teen Hunger Force. A giant anthropomorphic shake, a hovering box of fries with a goatee, and a meatball get into adventures, often at the expense of next-door neighbor Carl, who wears a wifebeater that doesn't quite cover his gut or his abundant back hair. Last night, they were attacked by aliens who attacked them with a belt that had all of the power of arena rock band Foreigner. "How will you attack me when you're 'As Cold As Ice'?"

Sealab 2021. I guess there was a Sealab 2020 cartoon while I was growing up. The best one made the whole episode seem like an Entertainment Tonight special on the making of Sealab: The Movie, complete with gratingly perky "reporter," commercials for an Applebee's style restaurant called Grizzlebee's (try the 64 oz Mega Onion Burst with honey-maple-ranch dipping sauce), and special apperance by Kid and Play as the directors of the movie, trying to rebound from House Party 2.

Cartoons made by stoners, for stoners.

(Now which will come first, a diatribe from JFF about the use of the term "wifebeater" for a white tank top, or a rant from PLF about the dangers of marijuana?)

[c2ed]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Bringing down the house. Queen Latifah is a BIG woman.

And Nia Vardalos in Big Fat Greek Wedding. Ok, it was indie. Still, a huge hit.

And Kate Winslet hasn't always been waifish (looked more "normal" in Titanic).

I agree with TM that there are some women who just have "it" and are going to be cast as leads even with a few extra pounds, but sadly, most of the actresses I know in LA are scarily thin (definitely 20 pounds less than me). It still seems to be the mindset that women need to look like coat hangers, not real women. There are a few who look closer to normal weight, or at least don't look like the work out 3 hours a day and diet like mad. But those are few and far in between. Vivica Fox and Famke Janssen (I know, thin, but not grossly diet-induced so) come to mind.

C(scared by the health consequences of a population quickly becoming either too fat or too thin)deuced

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Otherwise, you're completely missing my point, as usual. I think Marilyn was beautiful and sexy; she was almost universally thought to be then; but now with all the pressure on women in Hollywood to be extremely skinny, she absolutely would be told to lose weight, quit, or become a 'character actress.' Feminists have been complaining about this for years.

Wrong. I got your point. It was (surprise, surprise) quite simplistic.

When someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they're missing your oh-so-complicated point. It means they think you're wrong.

And Marilyn probably was told to lose weight back then. Her weight fluctuated. But if you think she wouldn't have gotten a job today, you're stupid. She was gorgeous and had intangible sex appeal oozing from her pores.

My point is that beauty standards are shifting. Women of color (not exactly Hollywood's beauty ideal, historically speaking) have an ever increasing say in discussions of beauty and talent. I think Marilyn, although not tiny, would have a place in today's entertainment industry. Hell, men are still obsessed with her. She might even have managed to bring back the voluptious look if she were in movies today (some would argue comes back in cycles anyway).

TM

[JustForFun]

Did someone say Liv Tyler wasn't fat?

Fat and Happy Liv!

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by evenodds
Please don't encourage him!

It's all about The Ratio, baby.

The one I look for is breast to waist, but if that ratio is good, it stands to reason that the waist to hip ratio is also on point.

Thurgreed(no encouragement required)Marshall

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Never mind size inflation, I'm more concerned about size imbalance. I pulled out one of my suits the other day and realized that the jacket was a size 2 and the skirt a size 10. Usually I'll split 6/8 from top to bottom, but sometimes the sized go askew crazily. And, of course, when I have to get a suit all together, I either have to go with an a-line skirt or get the jacket insanely altered, if that can even be done.

WTF is it with suits and dresses having a 38 inch bust and skirts having a 36 inch hip? Are that many women out there bullimic and implanted? (hyperbole alert - no offense intended to women with such measurements)

D(Bad Rich Chic)S

(Notice: the DebtSlave brand has come under new management and upgraded its appearances.)

( just had to see if the throw-up smiley worked. Weird smilies here)

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Jack Manfred

Sealab 2021. I guess there was a Sealab 2020 cartoon while I was growing up. The best one made the whole episode seem like an Entertainment Tonight special on the making of Sealab: The Movie, complete with gratingly perky "reporter," commercials for an Applebee's style restaurant called Grizzlebee's (try the 64 oz Mega Onion Burst with honey-maple-ranch dipping sauce), and special apperance by Kid and Play as the directors of the movie, trying to rebound from House Party 2.

Cartoons made by stoners, for stoners.

(Now which will come first, a diatribe from JFF about the use of the term "wifebeater" for a white tank top, or a rant from PLF about the dangers of marijuana?)

A group of friends were raving recently about Sealab 2021. I think that "best thing on TV" was used at one point during the discussion. Note: 100% of the ravers were male. I have no idea if that statistic is relevant to adoration of the show.

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
A few years ago, I read one of those "science of beauty" books (its on Amazon here if you're in to reading these sorts of books ) that go into why we think certain people are universally beautiful, and they did a comparison of Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn. These two women are totally different, but they are both considered beautiful. Basically, it came down to hip to waist ratio. They both had hip to waist ratio, somewhere between .8 and .7, and that's most women who are considered "beautiful" have going for them.

I dont get this. I bet that Tori Spelling, after the rib removal and the lipo has that ideal hip to waist ratio. But bag the face.

[purse junkie]

It's nice that there are exceptions and that the trend seems to be slowly turning--if only because the skeletor norm has become so outrageously repulsive that people think it's nice to see someone like Barrymore, who's what, an obese size 8? But they're largely still confined to indie films, and they're largely still exceptions. It's entirely possible that despite Marilyn's enormous sex appeal and later talent she would've been confined to the soft-core pinup arena if she started her career today--after all, when she first started acting in films like All About Eve she was widely considered by castmates to be just another flash-in-the-pan talent-impaired starlet.

[spookyfish]

Welcome, attorney formerly known as DebtSlave.

I've seen your name mentioned a lot here lately. Get tired of the echo over at the other board? :p

spooky(stay a while -- many here have been lost without you)fish

[robustpuppy]

TM,

Your exchanges with purse junkie are very dissatisfying. Your heart isn't in it. The feelings aren't strong enough on either side to generate a really heated exchange. Purse junkie's views are perfectly reasonable and there's so very little to argue with, yet you keep chugging along.

It's so sad to see passion wither on the vine like this. I think the real problem is that you have been stifling your urge to tell the poster who shall remain unnamed (and to whom I no longer respond, out of deference to you, schmoopie) just exactly where to stick her (for the sake of simplicity in pronouns) flagpole.

("Marilyn was beautiful but probably wouldn't make it in today's Hollywood." "You're stupid, Marilyn was beautiful, and she would too.")

r (for the record, I think pj's point is that Marilyn would have a tougher time getting through the Hollywood machinery today because agents and/or studios wouldn't recognize her star quality for focusing on her dress size) p

edited to fix split infinitive; although some heathens have determined that such a thing is now acceptable, I am old school.

[JustForFun]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan Basically, it came down to hip to waist ratio. They both had hip to waist ratio, somewhere between .8 and .7, and that's most women who are considered "beautiful" have going for them.

If you have a hip to waist ratio of between .8 and .7, that means that your hips are SMALLER than your waist. I doubt that anyone finds that attractive.

Just(let me guess, you weren't a math major?)ForFun

[Jack Manfred]

Originally posted by purse junkie

Marilyn Monroe would have had to lose weight were she an actress today.

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall

If you think Marilyn wouldn't have gotten a job today, you're stupid. She was gorgeous and had intangible sex appeal oozing from her pores.

I think Marilyn would be a working actress today, but I don't think she would be the first tier star that she was unless she undertook a diet/exercise regime that conformed with contemporary standards of beauty. Casting agents want actresses who ooze sex appeal, but that alone is not enough to guarantee stardom. If casting agents are looking for women with abs like Jennifer Garner, they're not going to care that Marilyn Monroe is sexier, they're going to focus on the softness of her curves with clucking disapproval.

originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall

My point is that beauty standards are shifting. Women of color (not exactly Hollywood's beauty ideal, historically speaking) have an ever increasing say in discussions of beauty and talent. I think Marilyn, although not tiny, would have a place in today's entertainment industry. Hell, men are still obsessed with her. She might even have managed to bring back the voluptious look if she were in movies today (some would argue comes back in cycles anyway).

Thin women of color now have greater opportunities in Hollywood. I don't think Hollywood is looking for the next Queen Latifah, though. Perhaps one of the reasons that so many men are obsessed with Marilyn Monroe (and let's not forget Betty Page) is because there aren't a lot of curvy, healthy women without six-pack abs and sharp features in the media.

I remember a poll a few years back where American men overwhelming chose Anna-Nicole Smith over Kate Moss. Those results didn't seem to change many magazine covers. I don't see Calvin Klein deciding chubby is the new black anytime soon.

edited to fix code

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
D(Bad Rich Chic)S

It's about time. Now get Less' ass over here. I saw he made an appearance awhile ago, but let's get you guys posting on the regular.

TM

...that is, if six weeks late is still fashionable. So y'all up'd 'n moved - I go on long trials back to back, and completely miss the revolution! (although I never posted to the ol' FB, but anyway). Viva 'law' revolucion!!