The New And Improved Fashion Board

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's been a while, and I need a new pair of glasses. I found a pair of frames I like, but they cost a little upwards of $400, which seems a little steep to me. True? Where is this on the spectrum? Honda Accord? Audi A4 wagon? BMW 5-series?

that's a little high. the total should be for frames/lenses if you have high index thin carbon etc. should be about 700-800 total upwards to 1K if you go high high end.......the frames should run like 250-300.

[J. Fred Muggs]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
What do Racists eat?

I'm willing to bet that, in the aggregate, they eat less cock than homophobes.

[J. Fred Muggs]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's been a while, and I need a new pair of glasses. I found a pair of frames I like, but they cost a little upwards of $400, which seems a little steep to me. True? Where is this on the spectrum? Honda Accord? Audi A4 wagon? BMW 5-series?

In my world, that is a gold-plated mercedes. Then again, I buy all of my glasses at the 2 for $99 sale at Foreyes.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's been a while, and I need a new pair of glasses. I found a pair of frames I like, but they cost a little upwards of $400, which seems a little steep to me. True? Where is this on the spectrum? Honda Accord? Audi A4 wagon? BMW 5-series?

1/10th of the way to Lasik.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I agree with a lot of this. I think people who are hurt tend to lash out at other people and instinctively, depending on how hurt they are or how vindictive they are (or both), latch on to something they know (i) gives them power over their target* and (ii) is as hurtful as possible. I also agree that Richards' outburst came from somewhere deep inside.

However, I still think it's a good question. Can you have racist actions performed by someone who isn't racist? What is the magic line that makes someone racist? Is it that they actually believe the racial slurs they're using? Or is it the fact that they're willing to use them knowing their impact?

I'm quite sure my line is different than yours, as I don't see how one can float in and out of racism based on whatever it is that is currently influencing them. That removes any sense of personal responsibility from the equation.

It's like the old argument, "He's from a different era. He's never going to change. That's the way things were back then." Right. Because people back then didn't look at racism and see something inherently wrong with it and people back then, white and black, didn't work on effecting change. And even though it is no longer "back then," he can't be expected to enlighten or educate himself because he's old or set in his ways or whatever. In fact, as most other people have changed the way they think about things, he has purposely resisted and held on to his "outdated" belief system.

I've always thought this was a bullshit cop-out and it shits all over the people who took it upon themselves to actively change their ways of thinking to more enlightened ones.

TM

*And you may want to question if people want to gain any kind of power over the target of a racial slur or a specific kind of power since, in the immediate case, the word "nigger" is powerful because of all of the historical baggage it has.

However, there are gradations. The woman who crosses the street rather than pass a black man is different from a card-carrying, hood-wearing Klansman in Bumfuck, Idaho.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I agree with a lot of this. I think people who are hurt tend to lash out at other people and instinctively, depending on how hurt they are or how vindictive they are (or both), latch on to something they know (i) gives them power over their target* and (ii) is as hurtful as possible. I also agree that Richards' outburst came from somewhere deep inside.

However, I still think it's a good question. Can you have racist actions performed by someone who isn't racist? What is the magic line that makes someone racist? Is it that they actually believe the racial slurs they're using? Or is it the fact that they're willing to use them knowing their impact?

I'm quite sure my line is different than yours, as I don't see how one can float in and out of racism based on whatever it is that is currently influencing them. That removes any sense of personal responsibility from the equation.

It's like the old argument, "He's from a different era. He's never going to change. That's the way things were back then." Right. Because people back then didn't look at racism and see something inherently wrong with it and people back then, white and black, didn't work on effecting change. And even though it is no longer "back then," he can't be expected to enlighten or educate himself because he's old or set in his ways or whatever. In fact, as most other people have changed the way they think about things, he has purposely resisted and held on to his "outdated" belief system.

I've always thought this was a bullshit cop-out and it shits all over the people who took it upon themselves to actively change their ways of thinking to more enlightened ones.

TM

*And you may want to question if people want to gain any kind of power over the target of a racial slur or a specific kind of power since, in the immediate case, the word "nigger" is powerful because of all of the historical baggage it has.

I've heard the "he's from a different era" argument and I think its shit. George Wallace was from a different era, and if I recall correctly, he renounced his past. There's no "can't teach an old dog new tricks" pass for racism. Irrational and rational don't change places in different eras.

What I was talking about was much more nuanced. At any given time, a person is capable of having a "DFens" moment, just like the character from "Falling Down," where he/she kneejerks to a simple nasty excuse for thier own fuck up. If he happens to have been listening to Rush Limbaugh at that moment, and the code words Rush uses for "Blacks," he might take the path of least mental exertion, and blurt a racial epithet at what he thinks is the cause of his problem. He's not a "true believer" racist; in part, he's been gamed by the media. See "The GOP's Southern Strategy." We're vessels for what we take in, and our views change based on what we're considering. Given that fact, I think some maleable sorts who don't understand the larger picture buy into racism. They can just as easily be bought out of it, since they're easily manipulated in any direction by any coherently stated argument (this is a HUGE group of people in this country... you can never understimate the size of those who want to be led). I'd call these sorts soft racists. They're not smart enough to even understand what they believe.

The second group I see are opportunist racists. These are people who know racism's dumb and backward, yet play along with it anyway because, well, it feels pretty good to put someone else down. They also allow a tradition of quiet racism in their family or community - from a different era - to overcome logic.

The true racist's racist is a rare cat. I've only met a handful in my life. They tend to live up to all the inbred, hillbillyish stereotypes, at least in my experience.

To answer your question, they're all racists, and they're all personally responsibile for what they say. The n-word doesn't slip your filter - you mean it. But there are very different gradations of them, and 1 is a far cry from 3. If I had to pick the most damaging of the 3, however, I'd have to go with the 2d "Gin & Tonic Racist" variety. They're the ones who usually run shit. The other two are usually cultural pariahs and economic refugees no one takes seriously.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by LessinSF
1/10th of the way to Lasik.

Glasses can't fuck your eyes up. The stories I've heard about Lasik gone wrong give me the willies.

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Glasses can't fuck your eyes up. The stories I've heard about Lasik gone wrong give me the willies.

2.
I'm very nearsighted and i used to wear contacts but the long hours my eyes get very dry I instead have the plastic frames all the 20-30somethings wear. and I'm vain but I could care less. I'm afraid of something going wrong with operation.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
However, I still think it's a good question. Can you have racist actions performed by someone who isn't racist? What is the magic line that makes someone racist? Is it that they actually believe the racial slurs they're using? Or is it the fact that they're willing to use them knowing their impact?

A white cuts a black guy off ( a black guy cuts me off)- what is the first thought? I think me and 99% of whites think "that black person cut me off." I'm sure 99% of black people have the same first thought. A white guy cuts me off, "the asshole cut me off."

Unless you are in the minority group that doesn't recognize race in that question, you are using race in some manner in how you evaluate a person- and that is arguably a racist thing to do. I think most people are racist in this way, which is a point Spanky kind of tried to make is his post. The question is what can people do to be less negative in how they are racist.

Personally, I don't think the choice to use a word, or not, is that determinitive of what a person is at heart. the word might be a hateful one, and one most white people well know not to use, but most white people have said it. It is bullshit to claim otherwise. I promised that my children would never hear me say it, and would hear me criticize anyone else we heard say it, and caution my kids not to use it (I hadn't anticipated the influence of rap in my family's life). I haven't used it for decades, and feel pretty safe in saying I will never use it again, BUT it is bullshit to say ANYONE who uses it is a horrible person. Like Atticus Finch says "It's a word only ignorant people use Scout." But when a word in is all of our mental rolodexes, I'm not sure the difference between "in your brain" and "on your tongue," means as much as sometimes is argued. To me the content of what Richards said was way more hateful than the word.

Change what he said:

Version 1: Take every N***** out and replace it with "black", now Version 2: he says n***** to the guys 36 times in a row. To me verison 1 is far worse.

T- black people's reaction is their own choice. I'm not saying you shouldn't reject anyone who you hear say it.

To me the true test is how you treat people. Do you give people the chances you have to give regardless of race. do you choose stores/professionals/ etc. color blind? If in a position of hiring are you colorblind? Shit like that is to me where the line lies- at least the most important line. But to say "do you recognize a racial difference" is the test, makes "overcoming racism" a goal that is not really possible*.



*in America- there is a This American Life (great NPR show) where the subject was "Changing Who you Are". One of the stories was about black Americans who have relocated to Paris. 2 or 3 were interviewed and the story was that it took them a few months to realize that the color was no longer the main thing about them. that first question I asked was answered differently- they were really pleased with the difference**


** the one downside was 2 women who spoke of how in the States they could cut a line of white people, like for a movie, and pretend they didn't see the line- if anybody said anything they glared. They tried to pull that act in Paris and it didn't work at all.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by patentparanyc
2.
I'm very nearsighted and i used to wear contacts but the long hours my eyes get very dry I instead have the plastic frames all the 20-30somethings wear. and I'm vain but I could care less. I'm afraid of something going wrong with operation.

just lasik, or also no lipo/tummy tuck, etc.?

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
just lasik, or also no lipo/tummy tuck, etc.?

You are such a rough crowd, Hank. Are you heckling me? I'm a minority you could call me the [insert Asian slur here] fatty or something. No, I'm afraid to do a tummy tuck or lipo....

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't think it applies to Richards, who clearly, based on his statements, holds quite seriously the views he aired, but there is a very thin distinction to be made between "hardcore" racists and people who say things they don't really mean in a moment of incredibly bad judgment.

I"ve called a woman on the other side of a case a "typical shrill cunt," but that doesn't mean I have a bias against women who are hardasses in court. It means she frustrated me and I lashed out. For some folks, I really believe that type of reflexive lashing out could include racial or ethnic slurs. Slurs are a cheap, lazy way of venting against somebody. Usually, their sharpness tracks the extent to which the subject of the slur has bested the speaker at some deal, case, sale, etc... People who flip out and use a slur under those circumstances do have some racist detritus rolling around in their heads, but they're not true "racists."

As I said, I do not believe Richards is one of those people. His "racist moment" was far too volcanic to have been a temporary lapse.

I guess what's a true racist depends a lot on whether you believe racism is like pregnancy, and whether you believe a person's fleeting belief in an ideology for any period, or at any moment, renders them forever adherent to that manner of thinking.

Growing up white necessarily involves consideration and rejection of racism. The ideology's a lot more fluid in culture than anyone wants to believe. For a rational/logical person, its simple to reject. But how many entirely rational/logical people do you know? I'd say there's a huge chunk of our culture who, depending on what year it is, what book they read, or what TV News they're watching, can shift from racist to non-racist, and the reverse, several times over their lives.

Bullshit. We're all racist, every single one of us. Race was defined in the 18th and 19th Centuries as a social construct, and reinforced ever since.

There is no real difference between Blacks and Whites except to the extent it is something we are trained from birth to view as a difference. And the fact is that, no matter how much we deplore it, no matter how much we try to overcome it, deny it, destroy it, it's still there.

It's just as racist for me to want to try and defuse the situation by joking that TM is only upset because those Black folk are sooooo sensitive, and then realizing that it's not something he'll find funny, because, well, it's not funny. It's racist of me to want to make that joke, because I'm ashamed for all White people and I want to make myself feel better, even if doing so is at Black peoples' expense.

We are all racist, because we all notice. We'd like to think we acccept all people on their own terms, irrespective of race. But that's bullshit. Because we all notice.

I find comfort only in one fact. I ask my son on occasion about people, and it has become apparent to me that he doesn't notice race. That is our hope for the future. That we can work to keep his generation from noticing.

[Anne Elk]

Originally posted by ironweed
Four video clips (I think the second one is best - last one might be fucked)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYBXMw_xHQ&NR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed9KSKJJuQ0&NR


http://youtube.com/watch?v=uCSCYyoDXJ4

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_i...bejygMnW2sVC3m

And Peter Martin (sound only)

http://media.putfile.com/211106

Gorgeous goal. My favorite was the Peter Martin sound clip. I'm surprised he still has a voice.

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Bullshit. We're all racist, every single one of us. Race was defined in the 18th and 19th Centuries as a social construct, and reinforced ever since.

There is no real difference between Blacks and Whites except to the extent it is something we are trained from birth to view as a difference. And the fact is that, no matter how much we deplore it, no matter how much we try to overcome it, deny it, destroy it, it's still there.

It's just as racist for me to want to try and defuse the situation by joking that TM is only upset because those Black folk are sooooo sensitive, and then realizing that it's not something he'll find funny, because, well, it's not funny. It's racist of me to want to make that joke, because I'm ashamed for all White people and I want to make myself feel better, even if doing so is at Black peoples' expense.

We are all racist, because we all notice. We'd like to think we acccept all people on their own terms, irrespective of race. But that's bullshit. Because we all notice.

I find comfort only in one fact. I ask my son on occasion about people, and it has become apparent to me that he doesn't notice race. That is our hope for the future. That we can work to keep his generation from noticing.

Once in a religion class I was told to STFU by a black woman since my experience as an Asian and as a minority was not considered to be as "damaging" or as "difficult to endure" as hers. Shit.

I'm still a non white and I felt that at times growing up that was held against me. That being said who is to say now as an adult that any one minorities' struggle is more or less than? So hard to say and that is not to say that the Asian/Hispanic/other experience is less than.

I was teased "chinky" "slope" "go back to saigon" etc. growing up is that less valid? people often assume I don't speak english....

Now in Ny they assume I am a FOB = fresh off the boat I'm not.

Or that my parents are a green grocer or a drycleaner owner or that I take tae kwon do which I don't.

shit.

Just now, well, at least yesterday there is yet another shooting of a possibly unarmed black man in a not exactly Tony area of Queens. Sharpton is all over that. When does it stop? the media circus, the horrible mistakes made by the cops. it is very disturbing on a lot of levels.

[Anne Elk]

Worth1000 is having a contest

Entries that made me think of the FB:
iDali
McDavid
Greeks