A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Oh, for God's sake. Slave, even in your neighborhood, you will not encounter anyone who really advocate(d) civil war.

Except possibly the drunks and winos. If you come across one named Stretch, give him a fiver for me, and tell him I'm sorry.

What about the stuff from the Dem party that a Bush win should be followed by weeks of civil disobedience, protest and refusal to accept the decision as being legimate. Just last week Hillary, your friggin party leader. was part of a protest of the election result based upon nothing. Do you think that was a step towards a more secure union, or a less secure union?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Fringe Freaks who've never done anything but scream from a university podium/Hollywood bully pulpit/ Dowd-ish op-ed column ARE the front face and "representatives" of the Blue States.

You are a caricature of yourself. You know that, don't you?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
What about the stuff from the Dem party that a Bush win should be followed by weeks of civil disobedience, protest and refusal to accept the decision as being legimate.

I'm not familiar with any of that. Cite please. And just to avoid any confusion, we're talking about the election of 2004.

Just last week Hillary, your friggin party leader. was part of a protest of the election result based upon nothing. Do you think that was a step towards a more secure union, or a less secure union?

Again, what are you talking about? Is this the protest to the official certification? If so, I think you intentionally misconstrue what it was about.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Fringe Freaks who've never done anything but scream from a university podium/Hollywood bully pulpit/ Dowd-ish op-ed column ARE the front face and "representatives" of the Blue States.

Right, and Tom DeLay's Bible quote at the Congressional Prayer Service implying that the tsunami victims got what they deserved because they're not Christian enough is the front face and "representative" of the Red States. Ok, I'll give you Ft. Bend county.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I was under the impression that the numbers you cited were not just limited to the "deficits caused by tax cuts" but also took into account the spending side as well.

You're right! I was looking for the spending cuts that would reflect the fiscal prudence of the supply siders, but I think I must have left it under the Iraqi WMD.

On a serious note, if the supply-side theory is correct -- that tax cuts "pay for themselves" because of the economic growth they create -- then there is no need for spending cuts to control the deficit. The supply-siders sure act as if that conclusion is true.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
You're right! I was looking for the spending cuts that would reflect the fiscal prudence of the supply siders, but I think I must have left it under the Iraqi WMD.

On a serious note, if the supply-side theory is correct -- that tax cuts "pay for themselves" because of the economic growth they create -- then there is no need for spending cuts to control the deficit. The supply-siders sure act as if that conclusion is true.

You really are going for "Cutest Poster of the Day" aren't you.

Huh? The paying for itself aspect (if, indeed, supply side theory even reaches that conclusion) means that there should be no revenue deficit purely as a result of the tax cuts. It does not mean that there isn't a need for spending prudence. If there was a deficit before the tax cuts, the tax cut is not a cure all.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
What about the stuff from the Dem party that a Bush win should be followed by weeks of civil disobedience, protest and refusal to accept the decision as being legimate.

And you equate that to being willing to take up arms against the most powerful military the world has ever seen?

Talk is cheap. Planting bombs is not.

Just last week Hillary, your friggin party leader. was part of a protest of the election result based upon nothing.

And you equate that to being willing to take up arms against the most powerful military the world has ever seen?

Talk is cheap. Planting bombs is not.


Y'know, I can keep copying and pasting this statement for as long as you idiots keep insisting that a mere 200,000 people willing to join an armed insurgency is meaningless, and as long as you keep comparing (unattributed, and most certainly unanswered) calls for "civil war" and "civil disobedience" to an armed insurgency.

As for comparing participation in a Senate hearing to the killin gof US soldiers, I have no comment.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Right, and Tom DeLay's Bible quote at the Congressional Prayer Service implying that the tsunami victims got what they deserved because they're not Christian enough is the front face and "representative" of the Red States. Ok, I'll give you Ft. Bend county.

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cg...=sd&ID=SP84605

It's possible Mr. DeLay is just trying to reach out a hand across the ocean to our brothers in the Islamist's struggle.

"[Yet] there was no mention of any role played by the Egyptian Doctors' Union, or by the Arab Doctors' Association, in collecting donations, gathering the doctors waging the Jihad war and transferring them to the regions hit by the disaster and by epidemic, in order to participate in treating the injured and sick, as they did and are still doing in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, and Iraq.

"The Arab Doctors' Association secretary-general, Dr. Abd Al-Mun'im Abu Al-Futuh, justified this by saying that this earthquake was divine punishment because of the Muslims' oppression by the infidels, invaders and occupiers, headed by the U.S., and that therefore we have no interest in what had happened! Chairman of the Emergency Relief Committee of the Arab Doctors' Association Dr. Ahmad Omar emphasized that aid to the Asia earthquake victims did not top the agenda of the committee – which was currently engaged in resisting the American invaders and occupiers in Iraq.

"Although I do not respect the reasoning of the Jihad warriors Dr. Abd Al-Mun'im Abu Al-Futuh and his colleague, the 'warrior' Dr. Ahmad Omar, I would like to draw their attention to the fact that the number of victims of the destructive earthquake in the state of Indonesia is no less than 80,000 killed, and that the number of injured is double that – and Indonesia is considered the largest Islamic country on the world's five continents!"

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Not small relative to our forces there, but very small as an indication of whether this is a true insurgency.

I'm not sure what number you're looking for to make it big enough to be an insugency. For other examples, I'd ask how many Nicaraguans served with the contras, as a percentage of the population?

Originally posted by sgtclub
You're right, I have not read anything on this. Do you have cites?

You might try searching the WaPo website. I think there was a large article this weekend, but my recollection might be off (sleep deprivation).

Originally posted by sgtclub
At its heart, I don't think this is a battle against the US. I think it's a battle against other Iraquis, a battle that is not winnable for the reasons stated in the article I posted. The best they can hope for is long term chaos, but by sheer numbers and economics, they are never going to win nor garner anywhere near a majority to back them. It is also not based on ideaology, but rather, sheer power.

I'd say there are elements of both, certainly -- but (to nitpick) it can still be an insurgency if it is directed against a domestic government. The insurgents may not be able to "win" power in the long term -- but if the Sunni radicals are successful in creating chaos over the medium to long term, then the perception will be that the U.S. has lost. Many people will also perceive that the U.S. had screwed Iraq up. [Many people will ultimately choose stability and certainty under a dictatorship to chaos and random murder in the streets.]

Perception is tremendously important in this fight, whether you view Iraq as a discrete war or as part of our ongoing battle against radical Islamism, which will last a generation or two.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You really are going for "Cutest Poster of the Day" aren't you.

Huh? The paying for itself aspect (if, indeed, supply side theory even reaches that conclusion) means that there should be no revenue deficit purely as a result of the tax cuts. It does not mean that there isn't a need for spending prudence. If there was a deficit before the tax cuts, the tax cut is not a cure all.

The tax cuts -- whether Bush's or Reagan's -- never came close to paying for the revenue they eliminated. Had spending remained exactly even, a virtual impossibility under our system of goverment, the deficits still would have grown.

But hey -- who am I to argue with a theory first expounded on a cocktail napkin?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Y'know, I can keep copying and pasting this statement for as long as you idiots keep insisting that a mere 200,000 people willing to join an armed insurgency is meaningless, and as long as you keep comparing (unattributed, and most certainly unanswered) calls for "civil war" and "civil disobedience" to an armed insurgency.

Where are you getting 200000?

As for comparing participation in a Senate hearing to the killin gof US soldiers, I have no comment.

If I could bottle how to get you to "no comment" I believe the board would stand up as one and applaude my latest contribution.

[Watchtower]

Guess who?!

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

Y'know, I can keep copying and pasting this statement for as long as you idiots keep insisting that a mere 200,000 people willing to join an armed insurgency is meaningless, and as long as you keep comparing (unattributed, and most certainly unanswered) calls for "civil war" and "civil disobedience" to an armed insurgency.

As for comparing participation in a Senate hearing to the killin gof US soldiers, I have no comment.

First of all, it's estimated at 40,000. Second of all, it's hardly meaningless. I think it's a real, but surmountable problem. My post was essentially going to the nature of the problem (i.e., that it does not have the hallmarks of a militarily defined "insurgency.")

That said, it is very disruptive to our efforts, and won't be "put down" until the Iraqis are trained sufficiently, in sufficent numbers, and with sufficient equipment to put it down themselves.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Talk is cheap. Planting bombs is not.

Appropos of nothing -- this comment just brought to mind my surprise over how big some of these bombs are getting.

In the past two weeks, roadside IEDs have _destroyed_ two (2) Bradley AFVs and one (1) M1A1 Abrams tank. (Not damaged, but destroyed.) That's extraordinary.

S_A_M

[SlaveNoMore]

Replaced_Texan
Right, and Tom DeLay's Bible quote at the Congressional Prayer Service implying that the tsunami victims got what they deserved because they're not Christian enough is the front face and "representative" of the Red States. Ok, I'll give you Ft. Bend county.

This is a valid point.