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Old 12-05-2006, 12:40 AM   #1381
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
WTF?
close. the better response is NWTF?
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:08 AM   #1382
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Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. Re the beast, there's no red ink if the beast collapses. When the money runs out, the program stops.
How do you propose to enforce this? It's not how it works now.
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:49 AM   #1383
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Originally posted by Spanky
So you think Isreal will do a lot of conventional bombing that won't accomplish anything?
No. They will try to accomplish something with any military action, and a delay is worthwhile to them.

They will try hard to keep Iran from acquiring a nuclear bomb -- more than one or two would threaten Israel's survival. But I think they will only use nuclear weapons if they believe Iran is about to launch on them, not just if Iran has a bomb. Remember that Iran has delivery systems that can reach them easily, and the available anti-missile systems (propoganda aside) are pretty unreliable.

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Originally posted by Spanky
Belgrade will throw quite a tantrum
They are weak, and are not our allies anyway (at the present). but it won't be for some time yet.

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Originally posted by Spanky
What could Turkey accomplish by invading Kurdistan? What do they do with it once they have it?
(a) If they do it, they would be doing so to try to help squash the Turkish Kurdish resistance and eliminate the dream of a Greater Kurdistan. If the Kurdish situation in Turkey continues to improve, and if Turkey ever gets into the EU, etc. the likelihood goes down.

(b) That's a big problem for them -- which is why invasion is not a good solution. That said, they have sent troops across the border into Iraq more than once, even with U.S. forces present. We've also captured and incarcerated Turkish agents/spies in Iraq.

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Old 12-05-2006, 01:54 AM   #1384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/cl...?msg_id=0029IG the above is what generated my Juan sock. you must know the history to realize how far we've strayed.

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/cl...?msg_id=002AHi arguably my best post ever- the day after the first night of passover
So, you want more Blue Triangle-esqe posts, or more funny sppof posts?

Feel free. Those are good fun. I can't do that.

Lose the bile, Hank. Embrace the Dog of Love. (Did I get that right?)

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Old 12-05-2006, 02:30 AM   #1385
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Quote:
Hank Chinaski
as to your second question, yes this place has sunk really fucking low. infirm with a cast of newbers is probably a better place. why doesn't anyone care to fix this place?
As I recall, the flounders at Infirm got paid (hi Less).

All me, RT, Ruysbrook, Leagle and EO got out of this place was a headache - and a few threatened lawsuits.

When someone buys me a drink, maybe "fixing this place" will become a higher priority than say, removing the sock lint from my big toe.
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:31 AM   #1386
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Quote:
Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
No. They will try to accomplish something with any military action, and a delay is worthwhile to them.

They will try hard to keep Iran from acquiring a nuclear bomb -- more than one or two would threaten Israel's survival. But I think they will only use nuclear weapons if they believe Iran is about to launch on them, not just if Iran has a bomb. Remember that Iran has delivery systems that can reach them easily, and the available anti-missile systems (propoganda aside) are pretty unreliable.
Yes - the anti missile program runs at about fifty percent. A hell of a lot better than zero (especially if you live in one of the cities that gets saved) but it still completely sucks in that when you miss you lose a whole city. Isreal does not have that many cities to spare. That is why they have said they will not allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

You say they will try hard to stop Iran from getting a nucler bomb but if the program is spread all over the country in bunkers, how is Isreal going to stop them without using nukes? Is there another military option besides conventional bombing and nukes?

It seems to me Iran is going to keep developing them until someone stops them. That is inevitable. And Israel can't stop them with only using conventional weapons. They only way they can stop them is with nukes (and even that is not for sure). Am I wrong?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man They are weak, and are not our allies anyway (at the present). but it won't be for some time yet.
True but they are still going to throw one hell of tantrum.

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(a) If they do it, they would be doing so to try to help squash the Turkish Kurdish resistance and eliminate the dream of a Greater Kurdistan. If the Kurdish situation in Turkey continues to improve, and if Turkey ever gets into the EU, etc. the likelihood goes down.

(b) That's a big problem for them -- which is why invasion is not a good solution. That said, they have sent troops across the border into Iraq more than once, even with U.S. forces present. We've also captured and incarcerated Turkish agents/spies in Iraq.

S_A_M
So Kurdistan if declares independence. If thTurkey doesn't do anything it will encourage the southeastern Kurds in their country to foment rebellions. If they invade, once they leave the country Kurdistan will just form again and they wil be in the same boat. If they stay that just means they will have double the amount of Kurds they will be occupying and giving the Kurds in their own country a further excsue to rebel. Plus it will permanently end any chance of entering the EU. These guys really don't have any options that I can see.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:24 AM   #1387
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Quote:
Originally posted by ltl/fb
How do you propose to enforce this? It's not how it works now.
Wasn't there a shutdown provision in effect when Clinton was in office, something along the lines of all non-essentials stopping if the budget wasn't balanced?

Just stop the money. If you or I buy a car and can't make the payments, we lose it. It should work that way. There needs to be a bonus system in place to incentivize govt employees. You don't get good or effective service when people have no incentive to run a tight ship. I will never buy the argument that the govt is "different" than business and should be allowed to run inefficiently. That's absurd. And offensive. It has a fiduciary duty to the people who pay it.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:01 AM   #1388
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Rumsfeld: We're fucked.

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Originally posted by Not Bob
I thought that Hank established that you are a dude. Did I miss something?
My amusement was just as an impartial observer!
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:07 AM   #1389
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bitter? me?

Quote:
Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
As I recall, the flounders at Infirm got paid (hi Less).

All me, RT, Ruysbrook, Leagle and EO got out of this place was a headache - and a few threatened lawsuits.

When someone buys me a drink, maybe "fixing this place" will become a higher priority than say, removing the sock lint from my big toe.
it is content, not structure, that is broken.

the trains run on time, they're just empty.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:24 AM   #1390
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bitter? me?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it is content, not structure, that is broken.

the trains run on time, they're just empty.
One suggestion would be to stop trolling and bitching at those who do post, and either (a) add good content, or (b) encourage new posters, or both.

I would agree that things have been stale, and that the same shrinking circle of voices gets old after a while. The same is true of the FB, though. (When Bilmore came back to visit, he noted that it sounds like a 10-way conversation between a married couple.)

That's a reason I'm glad to have Spanky and nonononono posting here now. I don't know any way to fix that issue except to somehow attract new readers and posters.

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Old 12-05-2006, 10:29 AM   #1391
Hank Chinaski
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bitter? me?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
One suggestion would be to stop trolling and bitching at those who do post, and either (a) add good content, or (b) encourage new posters, or both.
S_A_M
Isn't the question who has been the troll? It's not me.

Quote:
I'm glad to have Spanky
Me too. But I think we're in the minority. Most of the Dems here think he argues like a moron.
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Last edited by Hank Chinaski; 12-05-2006 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:00 AM   #1392
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/cl...?msg_id=0029IG the above is what generated my Juan sock. you must know the history to realize how far we've strayed.

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/cl...?msg_id=002AHi arguably my best post ever- the day after the first night of passover
Wow. Thoughful. Balanced. Not overtly proovocative or offensive for the sake of offense. You're certainly right. Some of us have really strayed.

Why, Hank, why?
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:07 AM   #1393
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11 Facts about the AMT

Because we never get tired of talking tax policy:

© 2006, Tax Analysts, Tax Notes Today, DECEMBER 5, 2006


Copyright © 2006 Tax Analysts
Tax Notes Today

DECEMBER 5, 2006 TUESDAY

DEPARTMENT: News, Commentary, and Analysis; Washington Roundup

CITE: 2006 TNT 233-49

LENGTH: 1095 words

HEADLINE: #49 2006 TNT 233-49 TAX POLICY CENTER PUBLISHES 11 KEY FACTS ABOUT AMT. (Section 55 -- Alternative Minimum Tax) (Release Date: DECEMBER 01, 2006) (Doc 2006-24268)

CODE: Section 55 -- Alternative Minimum Tax

ABSTRACT: On December 1 the Tax Policy Center published "11 Key Facts and Projections" regarding the alternative minimum tax, including how the AMT affects the 2001-2006 tax cuts, its encroachment on middle-income taxpayers, and its complexity.

AUTHOR: Burman, Leonard E.;
Koch, Julianna;
Leiserson, Greg
Tax Policy Center

GEOGRAPHIC: United States

REFERENCES:
Subject Area:
Alternative minimum tax

TEXT:


The Individual Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT): 11 Key Facts and
Projections

Release Date: DECEMBER 01, 2006

Published by Tax AnalystsTM

Len Burman, Julianna Koch, and Greg Leiserson

December 1, 2006

The individual alternative minimum tax (AMT) was originally enacted in 1969 to guarantee that high-income individuals paid at least a minimal amount of tax. Middle- and upper-income taxpayers must add a number of so-called "preference items" to their taxable income, subtract a special AMT exemption, and calculate their tax according to the AMT tax schedule. If the tax under that schedule is higher than the regular income tax, taxpayers pay the difference as AMT.

Projected Number of AMT Taxpayers
With and Without Effect of 2001-2006 Tax Cuts

[Image Omitted]

1. AMT is exploding. In 2007, unless Congress acts, 23.4 million taxpayers will be affected by the AMT. In 2006, only 3.5 million taxpayers will owe the tax because of a temporarily higher exemption, which expires at the end of the year. By comparison, back in 1970, just 20,000 taxpayers were affected. If the 2001-2006 tax cuts expire as scheduled at the end of 2010, 39 million taxpayers (more than one-third) will be hit by the AMT in 2017. If the tax cuts are extended, the number jumps to 53 million taxpayers (49 percent). (Tables T06-0266 and T06-0267)

2. The AMT is encroaching on the middle class. Although the AMT is highly progressive, the distribution of AMT liability will shift toward tax units with lower incomes. In 2006, tax units with $ 500,000 or more in income will pay 47 percent of the tax; by 2010, they will pay only 16 percent. More than 80 percent of households with incomes between $ 100,000 and $ 200,000 and almost half of those with incomes between $ 75,000 and $ 100,000 will pay the AMT by 2010 (compared to 4.8 percent and 0.7 percent in 2006). (Tables T06-0268 and T06-0270)

3. The average AMT liability in 2006 is $ 6,782. Next year, the average is projected to decline to $ 2,985 as millions of middle class families join the ranks of AMT taxpayers. (Table T06-0269)

4. Two main factors behind the explosive growth in AMT: it is not indexed for inflation and the 2001-2006 tax cuts cut regular income tax without a permanent AMT fix. The AMT is not indexed for inflation and, therefore, it affects taxpayers with lower real incomes over time. The 2001-2006 tax cuts more than doubled the projected share of taxpayers who will face the AMT in 2010, from 16.0 percent to 33.6 percent. If the tax cuts had not been enacted and the AMT had been indexed for inflation along with the regular income tax in 1985, the number of AMT taxpayers would have remained between 300,000 and 400,000 through 2010. (Table T06-0266)]

5. The AMT raises effective marginal tax rates. Marginal tax rates affect the incentive to work, save, and comply with the tax system. In 2006, 71 percent of AMT taxpayers face higher effective tax rates because of the AMT. In 2010, 89 percent will face higher rates. (Table T06-0271)

6. The AMT claws back the 2001-2006 tax cuts. In 2010, the AMT will take back almost 28 percent of the regular income tax cut that taxpayers otherwise would have received. Three percent of taxpayers will have their tax cuts completely eliminated by the AMT. This assumes that the AMT remains in full force. If it is scaled back or eliminated, it will turn out that the tax cuts are much more generous than originally estimated. (Table T06-0272)

7. The AMT is notoriously and pointlessly complex. The Internal Revenue Service and the Taxpayer Advocate have flagged the AMT as one of the most complicated tax provisions to comply with and administer. Most people required to fill out the AMT forms end up owing no additional taxes. The AMT also creates complicated interactions with the regular income tax.

8. Because the AMT disallows certain deductions and credits, it hits some taxpayers harder than others. Families with children are more likely to be subject to the AMT than those without children because the AMT eliminates dependent exemptions. Married couples will be more than 12 times as likely as singles to face the AMT in 2010. AMT participation for married families with two or more children and AGI between $ 75,000 and $ 100,000 will increase dramatically from less than 1 percent in 2006 to 89 percent in 2010. Since the state and local tax deduction is also disallowed by the AMT, residents in high tax states are currently almost three times more likely to face the AMT than those in low tax states. (Table T06-0268)

9. Repeal would be expensive and regressive. Repealing the AMT in 2007 would reduce revenues by $ 750 billion through 2016 if the 2001-2006 tax cuts expire as scheduled, and $ 1.3 trillion if they are extended. Almost 90 percent of the benefits of repeal would go to households with income above $ 100,000 in 2010. (Tables T06-0266 and T06-0270)

10. Simple reforms could spare most AMT taxpayers. Indexing the AMT for inflation and allowing personal credits against the AMT would reduce the number of AMT taxpayers in 2010 by over 85 percent.

11. Paying for reform is a key issue. Without revenue offsets, the reform above would reduce revenues by $ 520 billion over the next ten years (if the tax cuts sunset, $ 940 billion if they are extended). Rolling back the high-income rate cuts and the lower tax rates on dividends and capital gains enacted since 2001 would offset more than half of the revenue loss. If the tax cuts sunset, repealing the deduction for state and local taxes, as proposed by President Bush's tax reform panel, would more than offset the cost of reforming or repealing the AMT.

Further Reading:

Burman, Leonard E., William G. Gale, and Jeff Rohaly. 2005. "The Expanding Reach of the Individual Alternative Minimum Tax." (May). http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...m?PubID=411194

Burman, Leonard E., David Weiner. 2005. "Suppose They Took the AM Out of AMT?" (August). http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...m?PubID=311212

Leiserson, Greg and Rohaly, Jeffrey. 2006. "The Individual Alternative Minimum Tax: Historical Data and Projections, updated November 2006." (November). http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...cfm?PubID=9923

Rueben, Kim. 2005. "The Impact of Repealing State and Local Tax Deductibility." (August). http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...?PubID=1000818

There is no link because it's a subscription service. I am taking advantage of what I have a good faith belief is the educational use exception to the copyright laws. If my belief is incorrect, then please delete the post.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:12 AM   #1394
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bitter? me?

Quote:
Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
As I recall, the flounders at Infirm got paid (hi Less).

All me, RT, Ruysbrook, Leagle and EO got out of this place was a headache - and a few threatened lawsuits.

When someone buys me a drink, maybe "fixing this place" will become a higher priority than say, removing the sock lint from my big toe.
Happy to buy you a drink any time you're in Boston. Single Malt, any variety, you name it.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:13 AM   #1395
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bitter? me?

Quote:
Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
One suggestion would be to stop trolling and bitching at those who do post, and either (a) add good content, or (b) encourage new posters, or both.

I would agree that things have been stale, and that the same shrinking circle of voices gets old after a while. The same is true of the FB, though. (When Bilmore came back to visit, he noted that it sounds like a 10-way conversation between a married couple.)

That's a reason I'm glad to have Spanky and nonononono posting here now. I don't know any way to fix that issue except to somehow attract new readers and posters.

S_A_M
Every time you respond, Hank just fills the board with more of the same. You're feeding the troll.
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