Still Hating America.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Where is Atticus when you need him?

I thought any depiction of Mohammed or Allah was per se wrong, without regard to whether it's meant as respectful or not. I thought the word "Allah" was not per se wrong. I would believe Atticus if he told me I was wrong on either count.

I hope you saved your Nike shoes, because when the GWOT is over in a few years and we're looking back at it sentimentally, those are going to be worth a lot of $$$.

Any depiction of Mohammed is disrespectful; but then, if you are going to get fundamentalist about it (and why not? they claim to) then a depiction of any person is forbidden.

To claim to depict Allah is heresy. As mortals, we cannot know Allah and to claim to know what Allah looks like is big-time wrong.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I have a related question: is it perceived as wrong to include any depiction of Mohammed or Allah? I've never seen a religous icon of either.

I think so.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and what about the word "Allah?" I had the Nike flame b-ball shoes that were taken off the market because the flames looked like they spell the name Allah. Can the word be used, if used in a none disrespectful way (ie not on my smelly shoes)?

I don't really know, but I expect the name of G-d wouldn't get much play in marketing. The word is obviously used in public discourse, prayers, and interviews. The shoe issue would be extra-sensitive for Middle Eastern cultural reasons.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Adder
I had assumed that Hank was merely being sarcastic . . .

It is always easiest just to answer the question he asks, and allow him to yell "whiff" if he likes. He enjoys keeping count.

S_A_M

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I have a related question: is it perceived as wrong to include any depiction of Mohammed or Allah? I've never seen a religous icon of either. It seems like there are always images of the Imans. I recognize the Danish cartoons were disrespectful, but does a respectful image exist?

and what about the word "Allah?" I had the Nike flame b-ball shoes that were taken off the market because the flames looked like they spell the name Allah. Can the word be used, if used in a none disrespectful way (ie not on my smelly shoes)?

I'll bet you're going to get different answers from different Islamic schools on this - there are a number of traditions where images of people, period, are forbidden, and other traditions where images are not. I don't know if there are specific h'dith on images of Mohammed or Allah, but while I can think of a lot of Islamic traditions where images are permitted (Persian and Moghul miniatures, for example), I can't think of any images of Mohammed in Islamic art and the only images of Allah I can think of are the burning bush ones.

The word Allah is sacred but it can be accorded great respect by being both spoken and written. It gets carved or cast into all kinds of things (rugs, dishes, goblets), usually in extravagent calligraphy.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Any depiction of Mohammed is disrespectful; but then, if you are going to get fundamentalist about it (and why not? they claim to) then a depiction of any person is forbidden.

To claim to depict Allah is heresy. As mortals, we cannot know Allah and to claim to know what Allah looks like is big-time wrong.

The last statement is making me wonder about the burning bush images - one of my profs in school did a thing on the burning bush image across cultures, and I'm quite certain there are Islamic depictions. But then, Islam isn't a particularly well-organized religion, and interpretations can vary radically.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man

I don't really know, but I expect the name of G-d wouldn't get much play in marketing. The word is obviously used in public discourse, prayers, and interviews. The shoe issue would be extra-sensitive for Middle Eastern cultural reasons.

S_A_M

I think it does get a lot of play - calligraphic images of the word Allah, alone and in selections from the Q'ran, are big deals in Islamic arts and crafts - I'd bet many of us have oriental rugs in our houses that include the name of Allah and don't know it.

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think it does get a lot of play - calligraphic images of the word Allah, alone and in selections from the Q'ran, are big deals in Islamic arts and crafts - I'd bet many of us have oriental rugs in our houses that include the name of Allah and don't know it.

I purposely bought them so they would be the first thing the Islamofacist stormtroopers see when they kick down my front door. That should give me enough time to make my cowardly and treacherous offer of collaboration, starting with the location of Slave's hidden rebel base and Hank's IP address.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

The surge = more of the same failed strategy.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
The last statement is making me wonder about the burning bush images - one of my profs in school did a thing on the burning bush image across cultures, and I'm quite certain there are Islamic depictions. But then, Islam isn't a particularly well-organized religion, and interpretations can vary radically.

I wasn't aware of the use fo the burning bush image in Islam. Of course, it is used in Hebrew tradition, which was originally so strict about the non-worldliness of God that it was forbidden to speak its name.

I am speculating here, but it seems to me that the burning bush is more aptly viewed as a manifestation of God, rather than an actual attribution of form and substance.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by ironweed
I purposely bought them so they would be the first thing the Islamofacist stormtroopers see when they kick down my front door. That should give me enough time to make my cowardly and treacherous offer of collaboration, starting with the location of Slave's hidden rebel base and Hank's IP address.

Don't forget you promised to tell them of my devoted insistence on only eating halal bacon.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by ironweed
I purposely bought them so they would be the first thing the Islamofacist stormtroopers see when they kick down my front door. That should give me enough time to make my cowardly and treacherous offer of collaboration, starting with the location of Slave's hidden rebel base and Hank's IP address.

What are you planning when the Christofascists knock down your door?

[Replaced_Texan]

All the kids in Houston had to take their TAKS tests yesterday, and I realized why I'm not a real big fan of them as a measure of the teacher's success. The kids' interests aren't aligned with the teachers.

Kids just have to pass the test. The scores don't really mean anything in their own advancement. They're not part of the course. I never really paid much attention to a test that didn't ultimately affect my grade or my chances of getting into college. I can't imagine that most other kids do either. But if the scores are aligned with the kids' success in the class, then they'll be a better reflection of how well the teacher is doing as a teacher.

Two articles sort of made me clarify my thinking on this a little.

First, a local public radio piece on legislative efforts to do away with the TAKS test and replace it with "end of course exams." One of the things that I thought was interesting on the current standardize testing is that as a reflection of the teacher, it's not very good too, because the current model is cumulative knowledge of various subject matters, which may not be what that particular teacher had anything to do with. This year's algebra teacher, in the example in the article, gets dinged because of last year's geometry teacher.

Second, a study that suggests that there's not much correlation between kids' test scores and their grades. Obviously, grade inflation could be a factor there, but I think it goes back to kids focusing on what's meaningful to them rather than testing your teachers.

[SlaveNoMore]

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
What are you planning when the Christofascists knock down your door?

Champagne, caviar and a tickertape parade.

:partytime

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
What are you planning when the Christofascists knock down your door?

Speak in tongues. I have some tapes of Hank drunk-dialing fringey that I use to practice.

[SlaveNoMore]

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I'll bet you're going to get different answers from different Islamic schools on this - there are a number of traditions where images of people, period, are forbidden, and other traditions where images are not. I don't know if there are specific h'dith on images of Mohammed or Allah, but while I can think of a lot of Islamic traditions where images are permitted (Persian and Moghul miniatures, for example), I can't think of any images of Mohammed in Islamic art and the only images of Allah I can think of are the burning bush ones.

Muslims have rioted over Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad. Why? One claim has been that Islam forbids visual depictions of Muhammad, which is strange given how often images of Muhammad appear in Muslim history. We can also find many visual images of Muhammad in European history, all without Muslims rioting and threatening to destroy civil liberties. Here you will find numerous images of Muhammad, some Muslim and some European, accompanied by verses of war and violence in the Quran.

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