Politics: A new beginning - Page 94

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 11-12-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb

Though, how min wage laws apply to farm workers is something I'm only pretty sure about and not something I'm entirely sure about, and I'd truly love it if someone who actually for-sure knows would bust out and say so.

I don't know one way or the other. Either they're subsidized as compared to other businesses by being expressly exempt or they're subsidized by being implicitly exempt, because there's no enforcement of the rules. Take your pick, my point's the same either way: farmers have a source of labor at below-market rates. That's a subsidy, if not a directly fiscal one. Why should farms be exempt, but not auto cos., steel cos., coal cos., etc.? It causes a misallocation of resources towards farming, that does not increase (US) societal welfare). If the concern is national security (we need domestic supplies of grain), then give farmers a fixed amount of money each year (per acre) simply to produce.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't know one way or the other. Either they're subsidized as compared to other businesses by being expressly exempt or they're subsidized by being implicitly exempt, because there's no enforcement of the rules. Take your pick, my point's the same either way: farmers have a source of labor at below-market rates. That's a subsidy, if not a directly fiscal one. Why should farms be exempt, but not auto cos., steel cos., coal cos., etc.? It causes a misallocation of resources towards farming, that does not increase (US) societal welfare). If the concern is national security (we need domestic supplies of grain), then give farmers a fixed amount of money each year (per acre) simply to produce.

We are in agreement re: subsidies. My point is more that you seemed to be feeling that farms got stuff cheap not just from the feds but because they ignore min wage laws by hiring illegals who won't complain. My point is, part of a revised policy would have to involve actually imposing a min wage on farmers, not just hiring more INS people to clean out all those brown people.

Here's some 2001 Idaho press release about how they put in the min wage for farm workers so that they ahve the same protections as other citizens.

http://www2.state.id.us/gov/mediacen...1/Pr01_040.htm

Edited to add that partly also this is important because, fuck, if the farm lobby is strong enough to have gotten out of the minimum wage AND gotten water subsidies AND gotten direct subsidies, the kind of reform you all are envisioning just ain't gonna happen.

But you may dream your dream of free-market Utopia while your red states continue to keep large portions of their economies from actually, god forbid, having to compete in a market. Market forces really should only apply to other people, not them. Only the little people suffer market forces.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I know, but I'm not telling you.*

*Unless you ply me with booze.**

**Or maybe I don't know, but I view this as an opportunity to be plied with booze.

Even if supposedly it is OK to ship liquor or whatever in TX, I am not sending you any because I think it's immoral.

Say_hello_for_me · 11-12-2003, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I think that was her point.

Where's the justice there? They're paying taxes.

I really don't want to live in a country where you have to carry a national identity card with you so that the authorities can keep track of me.

1.) That this country is hypocritical? Christ, she coulda just said that and I'd agree with her in 4 words.

2.) Justice? The whole point is that they are illegal, so tax em but don't give em benefits. Which part of ille-gal don't you understand boy? jk

3.) Yeah, exactly my point about the protections. Make it so that someone is, but its not accessible without someone's order, except as a way to verify your identity.

You know something? How about if the government does this voluntarily, so that I can start telling people I won't talk to them unless they have a voluntary government ID. Awww yeah, I'm persuasive like that! How ya like me now?

Say_hello_for_me · 11-12-2003, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Edited to add that... Only the little people suffer market forces.

Not if you have anything to say about it with our impassioned support. We'll get those homeless bums a big phat checkbook with thousands of dollars, and benzes too. That'll teach the market to make people homeless bums!

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 11-12-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb

Edited to add that partly also this is important because, fuck, if the farm lobby is strong enough to have gotten out of the minimum wage AND gotten water subsidies AND gotten direct subsidies, the kind of reform you all are envisioning just ain't gonna happen.

Wait, you mean we're not allowed to rant about things that are politically intractable here? Shit. See ya.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Wait, you mean we're not allowed to rant about things that are politically intractable here? Shit. See ya.

You can rant, and I can say you're being unrealistic and living in a fantasy world.

It is odd to me that sometimes I find you completely unannoying and other times you seem like the biggest irritant known to mankind.

robustpuppy · 11-12-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You can rant, and I can say you're being unrealistic and living in a fantasy world.

It is odd to me that sometimes I find you completely unannoying and other times you seem like the biggest irritant known to mankind.

Sounds like love to me.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Sounds like love to me.

Don't tell SD, he'll be jealous.

robustpuppy · 11-12-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Don't tell SD, he'll be jealous.

No worries. SD knows it's just sex. At least that's what he told me.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robustpuppy
No worries. SD knows it's just sex. At least that's what he told me.

It's good to know the two of you are in close communication. I think looking at people's friends gives you a lot of insight into character.

Say_hello_for_me · 11-12-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It's good to know the two of you are in close communication. I think looking at people's friends gives you a lot of insight into character.

Or their pets, not that I'm harboring a grudge or nuthin.

robustpuppy · 11-12-2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I think looking at people's friends gives you a lot of insight into character.

As does noting that a person seems to have none.

ltl/fb · 11-12-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robustpuppy
As does noting that a person seems to have none.

Hey! I can send you signed affidavits from at least two people who would consider themselves friends! Just give me a little time to liquidate some assets.

notcasesensitive · 11-12-2003, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Hey! I can send you signed affidavits from at least two people who would consider themselves friends! Just give me a little time to liquidate some assets.

I will take my payment in booze. I have no problem with being bought.